Call to BAN the Apparatus Supervisors on FX and the D1 judge on BB

[KristyJ]

@KristyJ Distance is not the issue here because:
a) The line judges aren't sitting far away, right?
b) The D-panel DID recognize Chiles' leap correctly.
c) The neutral deduction for Biles was not affected by distance. It was poor judgment.

They are not on the podium, they are seated below it/far away from what I can tell. It makes it harder to see. They should be within a yard or so of the actual surface, on the podium, IMO.

I agree that the appeal to the D-score was wrong and the salute thing was silly.

 

[irichluck21]

Potentially a simple fix could be to use laser sensors on the lines of the floor. If a foot touches the line a light is lit up.

I mean if my garage laser sensors work in a way that if I am closing my gargage door and a chipmunk runs through it (which happens because we keep the bird seed in a metal locked bucket in the garage- chippy still comes to see if any seeds dropped) the garage door reverses.

Or do without the lights and just have it register in the computer system of an OOB. Then the judges review the OOB.

 

[dweiss324]

Agreed that you shouldn't need line judges, you should just need a sensor / video that allows for any questionable call or oob to be instantly reviewable. Maybe not at Sally's level 7 meet, but certainly at the Olympics.

 

[KristyJ]

I would say we should make sure that tech is foolproof before going that route- make sure that it can't be triggered by close proximity and such (though definitely open to the possibility if someone develops something consistent)

 

[Lisaelaine80]

The judges should be right behind the line, like in 1992, 96, etc.

 

[dweiss324]

Well if a sensor is triggered it should get an instant review regardless. Every scoring play in football is subject to automatic video review, no? If there's a hint of OOB, review it.

Thinking though this a little more... Bowling lanes around the world have had this tech for decades? Garages? Foot races use sensors and video reviews at the line... Museums, security systems.. There's absolutely no reason this couldn't be implemented

 

[KristyJ]

Well if a sensor is triggered it should get an instant review regardless. Every scoring play in football is subject to automatic video review, no? If there's a hint of OOB, review it.

Thinking though this a little more... Bowling lanes around the world have had this tech for decades? Garages? Foot races use sensors and video reviews at the line... Museums, security systems.. There's absolutely no reason this couldn't be implemented

Don't all of those have the lazer about an inch above the floor/ground? That would not work on floor given the heel/foot/whatever body part have to touch the floor. The carpet is textured, so it would have to be above that level meaning it's not exactly on the ground.

 

[RichardL]

The judges should be right behind the line, like in 1992, 96, etc.

The judge seated behind a Simone Biles corner should get to wear a full set of armor

 

[RedBirdie]

And think about how much the floor can and does rebound! The lasers would be tripped all the damn time. I just don't see it workable in gymnastics.

 

[Puffin]

Don't all of those have the lazer about an inch above the floor/ground? That would not work on floor given the heel/foot/whatever body part have to touch the floor. The carpet is textured, so it would have to be above that level meaning it's not exactly on the ground.

A laser sensor would have given Voinea an oob because her heel would have broken the beam.

 

[makam]

Did you know you can use fiber optics as pressure sensors? If the outside carpet has a line or two of sensor lines built into it, you're going to know who stepped out where (and how far if you run the lines out a distance). I'll bet they can also tell the number of steps if laid out correctly. A pressure sensor shouldn't be fooled by floor flex or by someone's ponytail swinging out of bounds.

 

[cats]

I would do this as a computer vision project. Cameras aren’t expensive and aren’t going to be broken so easily. You start with having the humans watch the cameras, then move up to having the computer flag issues for the human to check, then maybe you have the computer put through the results automatically (but can use video for human verification). The cameras get placed to see the line and distance from foot to floor clearly. “Line crossing” is a whole discipline in the CV universe. A company I used to work for used it to count the number of people entering an entertainment venue.

Computer vision could also be used to measure height, handstand angles, vault distance, step size, and so on, and in a way that is always human verifiable by watching the videos back. It’s very useful technology and cameras are cheap.

 

[Denn]

This whole conversation is absolutely insane.

Why the fuck are we having the gymnasts tumble in and out of corners?


Change the floor to a 20-meter by 8-meter rectangle — plenty of space for dance yet 3 meters more for tumbling and none of this asinine need to tumble from and to corners.

Put a camera on each line and, when in doubt check the replay. Easy.

 

[irichluck21]

Don't all of those have the lazer about an inch above the floor/ground? That would not work on floor given the heel/foot/whatever body part have to touch the floor. The carpet is textured, so it would have to be above that level meaning it's not exactly on the ground.

I was thinking more of like what they use in swimming, a touch pad that would activate when touched.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

This whole conversation is absolutely insane.

Why the fuck are we having the gymnasts tumble in and out of corners?


Change the floor to a 20-meter by 8-meter rectangle — plenty of space for dance yet 3 meters more for tumbling and none of this asinine need to tumble from and to corners.

Put a camera on each line and, when in doubt check the replay. Easy.

1) No federation would ever support changing the size of the FX area. Can you even imagine how expensive it would be to redo every gym in a federation to fit in a new floor? Gyms are built around a 12x12 floor area. I mean, I guess the suppliers would love ... more sales?

2) You're still going to have gymnasts trying to tumble the max line they can. They will still tumble from corner to corner because that gives the most room to accelerate.

Really, 12x12 meters is just fine.

 

[Denn]

1) No federation would ever support changing the size of the FX area. Can you even imagine how expensive it would be to redo every gym in a federation to fit in a new floor? Gyms are built around a 12x12 floor area. I mean, I guess the suppliers would love ... more sales?

2) You're still going to have gymnasts trying to tumble the max line they can. They will still tumble from corner to corner because that gives the most room to accelerate.

Really, 12x12 meters is just fine.

You are being cynical. The majority of tumbling lines are 3 elements. That won't change. And 3 more meters is a lot of space — it will help those doing, say, 5 elements.

The rule could require gymnasts to tumble parallel to the long edge of the mat. non-diagonal.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

The majority of tumbling lines include 3 FIG recognised elements.

In WAG, in most cases they also include a run-up. Andrade for example uses five steps in each of her tumbling runs. That's what I was referring to.

EDIT to respond to your edit. Your rules would fundamentally change the apparatus. Is that what you want?

 

[makam]

The majority of tumbling lines include 3 FIG recognised elements.

In WAG, in most cases they also include a run-up. Andrade for example uses five steps in each of her tumbling runs. That's what I was referring to.

EDIT to respond to your edit. Your rules would fundamentally change the apparatus. Is that what you want?

I'm fine with it. Having to tumble on a "stage" means the judges are going to have a good view of all tumbling lines (though not leg separations). It would also simplify camera reviews and aide in computer judging if the sport goes in that direction.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

I'm fine with it. Having to tumble on a "stage" means the judges are going to have a good view of all tumbling lines (though not leg separations). It would also simplify camera reviews and aide in computer judging if the sport goes in that direction.

But it's never, ever going to happen. Furthermore, 20x8 is still going to have bounds. Still going to have lines and gymnasts are still going to go out of bounds and still hover their heels over the line without touching over it. I mean it might be easier for them not to, but they are still going to.

Changing the dimensions of the floor is ludicrous when there are far easier ways to deal with neutral line calls.

 

[rlayt]

We need a petition.