What if Mohini Bhardwaj retired before Athens?

[Passion]

Even though she made the 2004 team, Mohini Bhardwaj had a very difficult time funding her training after college.

She might not have made it there if not for Pamela Anderson.
Especially since Mo was not on the national team so no funds.

Say Pamela Anderson never stepped in and Bhardwaj ran out of ways to fund her training, quitting gymnastics before Nationals in 2004. Who do you think would have been named to the team in her place?

Team: Courtney Kupets
Team: Courtney McCool
Team: Carly Patterson
Team: Terin Humphrey
Team: Annia Hatch

Alt: Allyse Ishino
Alt: Tasha Schwikert
Alt: Chellsie Memmel

Camper: Carly Janiga
Camper: Marcia Newby
Camper: Liz Tricase
Camper: Hollie Vise

Obviously Marta was prioritizing vault. Without Bhardwaj, the team only has two DTYs from Hatch and Patterson. Humphrey had a mental block with vaulting by Athens, McCool had a 1.5TY and Kupets had a Pod. Schwikert and Ishino both had 1.5TYs. Memmel was not vaulting at the time of selection, she had just gotten FX back in time for camp. She also didn't compete at Nationals/Trials at all, so without camp results we have no scores for her on anything. Liz Tricase was shown doing a big DTY in NBC's camp coverage, but the rumor at the time was she fell on UB, BB, and FX at camp.

Memmel slots in nicely with Hatch only doing VT, but then Humphrey would have to vault something in prelims. Ishino is the safest choice, she's the only alternate not injured in some way and she provides coverage on every event. Tricase would have been a great pick if she had a better camp.

Without Bhardwaj at Nationals, Postell qualifies to Trials and presumably wouldn't have quit training, so she may have been at camp as well.

2004 US Nationals Results
www.gymn-forum.net/Results/USNat/Women/2004.html

2004 US Olympic Trials Results
www.gymn-forum.net/Results/USOly/Women/2004.html

 

[KristyJ]

Say Pamela Anderson never stepped in and Bhardwaj ran out of ways to fund her training, quitting gymnastics before Nationals in 2004. Who do you think would have been named to the team in her place?

I think Ishino was the most consistent option from what we can see, and we all know Marta loves consistency

 

[KathySantoni]

I would bring in Alyse Ishino and have her do AA in Prelims. I would have benched Mccool and brought in Schwikert.

 

[RichardL]

I would bring in Alyse Ishino and have her do AA in Prelims. I would have benched Mccool and brought in Schwikert.

Benched McCool without hindsight? You would've been committed to the asylum at the time!

 

[RichardL]

Also that team is very notable for the gymnasts it didn't include, namely Postell who had motivation issues in 2004 and didn't get back to where she was in 2003 just before getting sick and missing Worlds, as well as Tabitha Yim who got injured before the selection camp but was surely going to be named to the team otherwise.

 

[RichardL]

Janiga would've been my choice over Ishino.

 

[KristyJ]

Janiga would've been my choice over Ishino.

I sincerely considered this. I liked her gymnastics better, but when I looked at scores, Ishino had the edge. I remember loving her tumbling, too.

 

[RichardL]

I sincerely considered this. I liked her gymnastics better, but when I looked at scores, Ishino had the edge. I remember loving her tumbling, too.

Great tumbler, awful dance elements, just like Tricase

 

[KristyJ]

Better dance than Tricase, in my opinion, though that's a low bar.

 

[KathySantoni]

Ishino beat Carly at Pac Rim, I feel like she could have withstood the pressure of Athens in a venue with less people than what Pac Rim had.

There were questions about McCool’s lack of experience and decision to stay as a junior in 2003. Multiple people questioned her readiness including Roe Kreutzer who disagreed with the way Courtney was being scored.

 

[RichardL]

Janiga's tumbling is better than I remembered. The US judges really hammered her, though, so there wasn't really an incentive to bring her for floor.

The US judges also made McCool undeniable based on the rules, so it was a non-starter. But looking back it really does seem like they were banking on something (her "international look") that could easily, and did, backfire.

 

[Concorde]

Janiga's tumbling is better than I remembered. The US judges really hammered her, though, so there wasn't really an incentive to bring her for floor.

The US judges also made McCool undeniable based on the rules, so it was a non-starter. But looking back it really does seem like they were banking on something (her "international look") that could easily, and did, backfire.

Both domestic and international judging panels could have scored McCool more harshly than they did. However, the evidence we have suggests that McCool would have received good scores for hit routines. I made a much longer post on this awhile back here:

C

Post in thread 'Brazil’s National Championships'

Jun 12, 2024

Because this thread is already going way off topic...

The gymnastics community's perception of McCool's scoring both domestically and internationally is quite inaccurate.

1. Misconception # 1: McCool was consistently being credited with her full start values in the U.S.

At U.S. Nationals and Olympic Trials, a 4 panel judge system where each judge calculated a routine's start value and evaluated execution was used. On balance beam, she was only credited with a 10.0 SV on 7 scores out of a possible 16. On floor, she was only credited with her full start value on 5 scores out of 16...

• Concorde

• 

The key points were:

1. Despite the reputation of U.S. judges being lenient, McCool did not receive full credit for her attempted start values on balance beam or floor exercise at the U.S. National Championships or the Olympic Trials.

2. McCool's low score on balance beam at the 2004 Olympics was due to a wobble that negatively impacted both her start value and execution scores, and was not simply a matter of slow connections.

3. McCool was scored very well internationally considering the errors that she made.

As additional evidence beyond what I posted previously, here is McCool's balance beam routine from event finals of the 2004 Test Event. Her credited SV and score will likely surprise you.

Spoiler

SV = 10.0, Score = 9.450

 

[rlayt]

MCCool wasn’t going to get the connections on beam. Domestic scoring gave her too many of them.

 

[JaJa]

Better dance than Tricase, in my opinion, though that's a low bar.

She has a little bit of that Riley McCusker hand thing going

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

MCCool wasn’t going to get the connections on beam. Domestic scoring gave her too many of them.

Indeed not. I didn't see McCool until Athens, and on later discovering the gymternet it was quite an education to look back and see how confident people were in her prospects earlier in 04.

But it's incredible to think she got 9.112 from a 9.6 SV and at least a 2 tenth break on the Onodi. I think actually, the international judges probably did like what they saw there. Just not the SV ones. Imagine what might have been if she had a coach who'd actually heard of the COP.

 

[Concorde]

MCCool wasn’t going to get the connections on beam. Domestic scoring gave her too many of them.

I often see McCool receive criticism for two of the following connections in her routine in particular:

• Front Handspring to Two Feet Mount + Sissone in Double Stag Position
• Aerial + Back Handspring Stepout + Layout Stepout + Layout Stepout

However, even if she does not receive credit for either of these connections, her routine still has enough bonus to start from a 10.0. In fact, even if the layout stepout + layout stepout is the only connection credited within the routine, McCool would still start from a 9.8.

I thought the U.S. judges were fair in the evaluation of McCool's Switch Leap + Onodi + Sheep Jump from the videos that I could find online:

U.S. National Championships - Day 1:

• Switch Leap + Onodi (Almost immediately begins preparation for the Onodi after landing the Switch leap)
• Onodi + Sheep Jump (Almost immediately begins preparation for the Sheep Jump out of the Onodi)

All four judges credited McCool with a 10.0 SV.

U.S. Olympic Trials - Day 1:

• Switch Leap + Onodi (Almost immediately begins preparation for the Onodi after landing the Switch leap)
• Clear hesitation before initiating Sheep Jump

All four judges credited McCool with a 9.9 SV.

U.S. Olympic Trials - Day 2:

• Switch Leap + Onodi (Almost immediately begins preparation for the Onodi after landing the Switch leap)
• Onodi + Sheep Jump (Almost immediately begins preparation for the Sheep Jump out of the Onodi. She shifts her left foot forward as she prepares for the Sheep Jump which breaks the connection. However, because the movement is small and the tempo of the connection is good, I can understand why some judges give her the benefit of the doubt, especially if their viewing angle made it hard to see her left foot.)

The panel is split with two judges awarding a 10.0 SV and two judges awarding a 9.9 SV.

 

[Concorde]

Indeed not. I didn't see McCool until Athens, and on later discovering the gymternet it was quite an education to look back and see how confident people were in her prospects earlier in 04.

But it's incredible to think she got 9.112 from a 9.6 SV and at least a 2 tenth break on the Onodi. I think actually, the international judges probably did like what they saw there. Just not the SV ones. Imagine what might have been if she had a coach who'd actually heard of the COP.

I have often wondered if McCool is a gymnast that the judges would have ' figured out' the more she competed internationally. Once they became more familiar with the flaws in her gymnastics, such as the underrotations of her twisting dance elements, would they still be as generous? I was surprised to see that she received credit for the majority of her dance elements on floor exercise in Athens.

 

[RichardL]

Tia Orlando also had the potential, but of course got injured. Still, a B-team from that year would've been interesting and quite strong. And in 6-3-3, who knows which team would've won on any given day.



Schwikert UB BB
Orlando (VT?) FX
Janiga VT BB (FX?)
Ishino UB BB
Tricase VT UB FX
Sacramone VT FX (didn't make Trials)

* and not including Yim because of the pre-Trials injury, but if you remove Orlando too, then just don't replace her and have Janiga or Ishino do FX

 

[david]

Janiga's tumbling is better than I remembered. The US judges really hammered her, though, so there wasn't really an incentive to bring her for floor.

The US judges also made McCool undeniable based on the rules, so it was a non-starter. But looking back it really does seem like they were banking on something (her "international look") that could easily, and did, backfire.

Janiga also had a DTY. I don't remember if she hit her vaults and for what scores at the final camp but if she was replacing Mohini, in theory, she could have stepped in for her on vault and floor. She also got two 9.6s on beam at nationals and a 9.575 on beam day 2 of trials, so she could have been useful there too.

 

[rlayt]

I bow to your expertise Concorde. Too often gymnasts get much better scores domestically and I hate to think of or call McCool’s performance a meltdown.