Thoughts on new rules?

[Doug1233]

The 10 is literally ruining women’s NCAA as we speak. There is no rhyme or reason to half the scores we see anymore.

 

[MensGym]

It’s true.
But how do you feel about the new NCAA rules for men’s gymnastics? The 10 is not in the rules this year.
How do you feel about the head to head, the no touch, and 5 up, 5 count all year long?

 

[rlayt]

No touch lessens the quality IMO and isn’t as safe.

I like head to head. It emphasizes the difference in routines and would be easier for newcomers to watch.

I’m not a fan of 5 up 5 count.

I’m not a MAG expert or code person.

 

[MAGfan]

I agree. I love the head to head. I wasn’t sure I would but I do.

the other 2 are tough…so many issues. I hope they revisit it!

 

[irichluck21]

No touch is dangerous and makes little sense for the sport. Especially since elite team competitions always have one touch warm up and now elite has warm ups back for event finals.

 

[Denn]

Hey — almost the latter; 3-4 in the first round and 1-2 per team per apparatus in the second.

 

[Doug1233]

I can’t see why anyone would be against a one-touch. The sheer amount of ads on any gymnastics broadcast makes it difficult to argue the “its better for TV” angle.

 

[MAGfan]

OK. That is what I thought you meant.

SO, the viewing audience would see the meet that is 60-80% over?

How would that work if the meet is a blowout at that point?

and…what do you think about the changes they made up until now?

 

[Denn]

The viewing audience could see some of the earlier round, too. Maybe an hour or so of each. Head-to-head with 2 per team per apparatus is probably a bit less than an hour, since guys can do a one-touch on pommels while floor is happening, etc.

I don’t really know what I think because I haven’t gone. I actually don’t care that much about TV audiences — I sort of accepted it was never going to happen years ago. There just isn’t a big market for weekly NCAA men’s gymnastics, and those who are passionate about it will mostly watch anyway.

I was just trying to offer an idea that keeps head-to-head where it’s most valuable but also keeps the meets a length more like what they used to be.

 

[MensGym]

I’m wondering if you’ve thought about the details of what you are suggesting and how all of that would truly work in real life?

1. Head to head is how the dual meets are run now. It started last year with Virtius because of Covid, but it has been batted around for a few years. It seems to be popular amongst the viewers. Easier to see who’s winning. Creating excitement with the head-to-head scoring. Ooh… that guy on that team got a 13.30, the other guy got a 13.4. At the end of 5, the teams are only .3 apart. At the end of 2 events, we had a lead change. At the half, one team was up by 7 points and the other team caught up in the 2nd half to win the meet! That’s the built-in drama to a meet. Which leads to number 2.
2. When the majority of meets come down to the last couple of routines on HB, you want to see all of HB. The whole event. All 10 guys. The lead changes. If someone falls. If someone hits. It’s the thrill of victory. The agony of defeat. Isn’t that what happened yesterday in football? It came down to the last play of the game to see who won the games. The thrill and the agony.
3. I think this has gotten off-topic. This thread was about the New Rules and if you agree or disagree. It wasn’t about the 10 or changing the format or the scoring.
   Do you like Head to Head? No-touch between Events? 5 up, 5 count?

 

[MensGym]

I had thought about that, too. Why can’t they do the 1-touch on horse the last 2 guys on floor? I’m totally guessing here…Maybe it’s partly because they need a person timing it to make it fair to the teams. Maybe the last floor guy is the last horse guy and he wouldn’t get his turn. Not really sure. I know judges are hard to come by. Maybe that a part of it, too. I really don’t know. This would also mess with the coach’s lineups.

 

[Denn]

BTW, welcome to Gymnaverse. Do you want to introduce yourself?

We’re not far off topic at all. It’s fine. Here’s my answer to your questions, not that my opinion matters, as I don’t make any decisions or have any influence.

• Head to head — It’s fine, but the pairings don’t actually matter since the scores just get added up anyway. As long as one athlete starts after the other, teams could be on separate apparatus, and I am just as happy. It also goes faster for judging because you can have 2 judges (or 4 judges for bigger meets) on each of the apparatus.
• one-touch — I am in favor of anything that supports safety.
• 5 up 5 count — It’s a gymnastics competition, not a life-or-death situation, so I am not really worried about pressure. That’s part of competition. I do really hate seeing lots of falls, so if this motivates athletes to do more reliable exercises, I am okay with it as long as there is a provision of letting a sub replace an exercise if a gymnast gets injured mid-exercise, which would really tank the score.

BTW, people can’t see all 60 exercises of a dual meet on TV anyway. So #2 is not a new problem. But it’s a lesser evil. Also, there are lots of certified judges out there because NCAA uses the same rules as the Junior program (and as FIG). With so few teams competing nowadays, there are some judges who wish they could judge college more, particularly in some areas of the country.

 

[MensGym]

Hey!
Thanks for giving your thoughts on the topics. We are not far off.
I have heard that the NCAA does have issues getting judges on several occasions. This was before Covid so who knows now?
It did seem like there were more falls, but is that due to the beginning of the season or no 1 touch? We’ll never know.

Actually, on BTN and BTN+, you do get to see all the routines in a dual meet, including the exhibition guys and AA guys. Whether it was head to head or the traditional format. That’s the beauty of dual meets. With tri-meets, Big Tens, and NCAA’s, right, you don’t see all the routines. That’s where they will follow the team or the athletes that are expected to win or are exceptional.

 

[OnoNoKomachi]

I live near California and Stanford, so get to see many meets in person.

There is less cognitive fatigue with head to head. I only have to look one place.

The Cal - So Cal United meet took a little over 2 hours.

I’m not actually sure why they started the intermission thing. I just assumed it was time.

 

[MAGfan]

I assume it is time as well, although Navy Open, while not head to head, started at 2pm (well, march in, intros, and national anthem, the meet probably started around 2:05-2:10ish), and was over by 4:15ish. So not very long either.

One interesting thought…maybe instead of a 1 touch before every event, there is a break after 2. So warm up floor/pommel, compete. Warm up rings/vault, compete. Warm up Pbars, HB, compete.

Nothing is going to change this year, but it is good that there is some discussion occurring.

 

[MensGym]

I love the idea of 2 minutes between 2 events. That’s a perfect solution.

 

[MAGfan]

It might have to be 4, but it definitely is a great idea.

 

[MensGym]

Oh yeah… It needs to be 4, in case you have a guy who does both.

 

[OnoNoKomachi]

Article on new rules - Justin Spring was the push behind them

Illini men's gymnastics coach Justin Spring reflects on advocating for newly implemented dual-meet format - The Daily Illini

The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved a new dual meet format and scoring methodology for men’s gymnastics competitions back in August. These new changes were finally implemented at Illinois’ meet against Penn State on Jan. 29 and will be followed throughout the entirety of the season...

dailyillini.com

He wants to go to the “match play” system where two guys from opposing teams square off and the guy with the higher score will get a point for his team.

So the score will be something like 20 to 10.

The reasoning seems to be that these numbers will be easier for audiences to understand.

 

[MensGym]

He’s talked about it a lot over the years. No one likes it. They suggested flashing the scores and the point system. He needs to give up trying to change NCAA gymnastics and work within the boundaries that are set.