Relitigating 2000 Olympics stuff

[ArnoldRimmer]

The endless litigation of Skinner vs McCallum is so funny to me. Maybe we can do Atler vs Dawes next just as a palate cleanser.

You know, I don't remember ever seeing a proper set to over that one. Lots of discussion about how things went tits up for Atler, but not about her v Dawes. Was it something that was being argued over much at the time?

If anyone would like to start something now, I'll watch with great interest and take notes!

 

[Hatsumomo]

I'm with ArnoldRimmer. I've never seen an argument about Atler vs. Dawes and I'm intrigued.

 

[RedBirdie]

The gymnternet was so much smaller back in 2000. Even if it was something argued over, there just wasn't really the critical mass of people.

Besides, we were mostly still too busy relitigating the 1992 AA finals to worry about Atler vs. Dawes.

 

[rlayt]

We haven’t had a good talk about the vault settings in 2000 in a while.

 

[MaryClare]

We haven’t had a good talk about the vault settings in 2000 in a while.

I only recently learned that the vault wasn’t set “wrong” but rather the documents provided to staff hadn’t been updated to reflect the new height setting for women’s vault

 

[Hatsumomo]

I only recently learned that the vault wasn’t set “wrong” but rather the documents provided to staff hadn’t been updated to reflect the new height setting for women’s vault

That might be worse and it totally tracks.

 

[QuietColours]

Uncle Tim on it: https://www.gymnastics-history.com/...t-debacle-and-the-apparatus-norms-hypothesis/

 

[rlayt]

One of the biggest blunders the Women’s Technical Committee ever made. Not implementing the fail safe check. Has Jackie Fie herself ever made a statement ?

 

[irichluck21]

It was wild that Tim and Elfi kept harping up "VAULTER" we need a vaulter.
Then Dawes was chosen for a FTY and 1.5 combination as a "vault specialist", whose total was DROPPED from team finals.
Granted her 9.700 bars and 9.475 beam were keepers, the 9.700 tied with Dantzscher for 3rd on the team for bars and the 9.475 on beam was 2nd on the team.

Too bad about Moceanu injuring herself. She had her 1 .5 back and was vaulting HS front layout half vaults again. So 9.8/9.9 sv would have put her in line for favorite for the team. Such a shame. A 1998 GWG Moceanu would have been a lock for Sydney.

I still would have gambled on Atler for vault and beam- despite the debacle at Trials.

Potentially used Maloney, Dantzscher, Chow, Ray in AA in TQ/TF. White on UB/BB/FX. Atler just for VT.
If Atler was looking good on beam and floor leading up to the Olympics and did well in podium. I would have had Chow, Maloney, Ray= AA. White/Schwikert=UB/BB, Atler=VT/BB/FX, Dantzscher=VT/UB/FX

VT: Dantzscher, Maloney, Chow, Ray, Atler
UB: Maloney, Schwikert, Dantzscher, Chow, Ray
BB: Schwikert, Chow, Atler, Maloney, Ray
FX: Dantzscher, Chow, Ray, Maloney, Atler

If not it could have easily been 4 all arounders with Atler vaulting and Schwikert doing UB/BB/FX.

 

[RedBirdie]

I'm all for relitigating the 2000 team selection, but let's make a new thread for it

 

[RichardL]

I didn't mean to open a can of worms, but I'd be happy to contribute to a thread about this, since I very much do remember being a part of the online debate at the time! (and I love @irichluck21 's analysis here)

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I would looooove to read that.

 

[Denn]

I'm all for relitigating the 2000 team selection, but let's make a new thread for it

Done.

 

[rlayt]

Could you trust Atler not to melt down everywhere after all that happened? i haven’t rewatched 2000 Trials in forever. That and the 2004 announcements made me uncomfortable.

 

[RichardL]

Atler's career is part of a book I'm writing right now so I'm very fresh on everything lol. She was a disaster at Trials and obviously the bulimia was something she should have been taking care of instead of competing (hindsight + knowledge we didn't have at the time).

BUT even watching again now, I would have still had her on my team with what we knew then. Trials revealed a hole on vault that her DTY would have filled, and she hadn't missed that vault all throughout her "meltdown." It looks amazing here:



And here:

 

[Passion]

I think if she was named to the team then told right off the bat that she wasn’t doing AA it may have taken some of the pressure off.

 

[RedBirdie]

I don't know if I've ever seen a gymnast as spectacularly mismanaged as Atler.

 

[RichardL]

Here are the scores for some context:

https://static.usagym.org/PDFs/Results/2000trials_w_aa.pdf

Beckerman did herself zero favors at Trials on bars and beam. Those misses on day one did her in. A shame because she was world class on those events and would've been a great replacement for White.

There are two conversations to be had here: before and after White's injury and withdrawal. I would have brought in Beckerman immediately, but Karolyi saw something in Schwikert that panned out. Dawes obviously would have been brought in before Beckerman if Atler had been named to the original team, though.

Obviously a healthy (in all senses of the word) Atler would have benefited the team in a huge way. Middle of the road scores for her on three events would have closed the gap with China to around three or four tenths.

 

[RichardL]

I also forgot that Maloney went from 1st AA on day one of Nationals to 2nd, then 3rd, then 8th as the four phases of "trials" panned out. Ray, Chow, and White really took advantage of the actual Trials, and both Chow and White beat Ray on the fourth night.

I remember coaches from other countries watching the US team in podium training and thinking Chow was going to contend for an AA medal.

 

[rlayt]

At what point did Beckerman have to stop taking her meds for ADHD? She was medicated at Trials, right?