Post Olympics (September 2024) Articles and Social Media posts

[JaJa]

No, I'm afraid that a man will walk into a women's locker room for the purposes of looking at women changing and, when challenged by some junior member of staff on minimum wage, simply say "How dare you, I identify as a woman". And said junior member of staff on minimum wage then has to decide whether they're dealing with a genuine trans person or a bloke getting his rocks off.

That's kind of like saying "I'm afraid a thief will walk into a bank and tell the employees he is a federal agent and wants access to all of the safety deposit boxes and the security staff at the bank will have to decide if he is really a federal agent or just a thief." College sports lockers are not open to the random public. Private gyms are not open to the random public. People opposed to trans rights have been citing fears like this for some time. Yet, I have not heard of a single incident where a cis man gained access to a woman's locker room or bathroom by pretending to identify as a woman just so he could spy on women. Its not a reasonable fear. At some point people have to utilize common sense. And we as a society can not use completely far fetched fears to deny people civil liberties.

 

[OnlyBeansOnToast]

That's kind of like saying "I'm afraid a thief will walk into a bank and tell the employees he is a federal agent and wants access to all of the safety deposit boxes and the security staff at the bank will have to decide if he is really a federal agent or just a thief."

That analogy only works if everyone carries ID stating what their sex is. We live in a world where men will go to medical school, or qualify as teachers, or join the police, or become the lead doctor for USA gymnastics or a million other things in order to get access to women and girls. The idea that not a single one would abuse self-ID for sexual purposes is simply naive.

 

[JaJa]

That analogy only works if everyone carries ID stating what their sex is. We live in a world where men will go to medical school, or qualify as teachers, or join the police, or become the lead doctor for USA gymnastics or a million other things in order to get access to women and girls. The idea that not a single one would abuse self-ID for sexual purposes is simply naive.

I am many things. Naive is not one of them. Obviously criminals use all sorts of ruses to gain access to victims. So the way to try to handle that is to put reasonable safeguards in place. Like a college gym not just letting any random man go into a woman's locker room claiming to identify as a woman. Should we deny men admission to medical school and the police force because one in millions just might be using it as a means of getting access to women and girls? It is not a fool proof world and things do happen. But the next time I am robbed at gunpoint I think I will opt to call 911, rather than sit around and fret that the police officer who responds to my call will be a bad guy who only joined the force to get access to vulnerable women. Its like that.

 

[RichardL]

No, I'm afraid that a man will walk into a women's locker room for the purposes of looking at women changing and, when challenged by some junior member of staff on minimum wage, simply say "How dare you, I identify as a woman". And said junior member of staff on minimum wage then has to decide whether they're dealing with a genuine trans person or a bloke getting his rocks off.

Until this leaves the realm of the hypothetical and becomes our lived reality, can we instead choose to be generous to the trans women who legitimately need access to women-only spaces (and obviously I include trans women in this distinction) for their own well-being?

 

[KristyJ]

I think expressing a fear about taking advantage of in this day and age is reasonable. Enough things have happened to enough people of all gender identities and descriptions that "I am afraid someone will violate my space" is a totally valid concern. Trans individuals asked to change in the opposite gender locker room also may have this fear, in addition to cis individuals, adding a layer of complexity.

Does that necessarily mean trans women who are verified competitors in a sport need a separate space to change? No, it doesn't necessarily mean that, but I do think putting in place safeguards to protect against people who might easily use a space to view naked people is also a valid ask. Now, the specific safeguards in question, that gets tricky. Where do you draw the line? It seems unfair to ask someone to have identified a certain way for a certain amount of time before they gain access. It also seems unfair to ask anyone of any gender to feel unsafe to do their sport. But I think belittling others' concerns is not helpful here either when there could be a productive discussion around "what would alleviate your concerns?"

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Just saw this on twitter

 

[RedBirdie]

 

[JaJa]

I think expressing a fear about taking advantage of in this day and age is reasonable. Enough things have happened to enough people of all gender identities and descriptions that "I am afraid someone will violate my space" is a totally valid concern. Trans individuals asked to change in the opposite gender locker room also may have this fear, in addition to cis individuals, adding a layer of complexity.

Does that necessarily mean trans women who are verified competitors in a sport need a separate space to change? No, it doesn't necessarily mean that, but I do think putting in place safeguards to protect against people who might easily use a space to view naked people is also a valid ask. Now, the specific safeguards in question, that gets tricky. Where do you draw the line? It seems unfair to ask someone to have identified a certain way for a certain amount of time before they gain access. It also seems unfair to ask anyone of any gender to feel unsafe to do their sport. But I think belittling others' concerns is not helpful here either when there could be a productive discussion around "what would alleviate your concerns?"

I agree its not great to belittle someone's concerns -- but I think what some of us are struggling with is where do you draw the line between legitimate concerns and irrational bias? What if I feel unsafe in a locker room with people of a specific ethnic group or race because I think they come from a group with a high rate of crime and therefore might victimize me?

 

[OnlyBeansOnToast]

I agree its not great to belittle someone's concerns -- but I think what some of us are struggling with is where do you draw the line between legitimate concerns and irrational bias? What if I feel unsafe in a locker room with people of a specific ethnic group or race because I think they come from a group with a high rate of crime and therefore might victimize me?

c98% of sexual offences- all sexual offences, against all people of all genders, sexes, sexualities ages and races - are committed by men. The vast majority of victims are women and girls. Women and girls wanting some reassurance that the most basic safeguards against that are not being removed is not "irrational".

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Update from Simone.



I did think we might see something like this. Our discussion has focused more on the tweet about uplifting and third categories than it has on the one about Riley being the size of a man, but the latter was really unhelpful PR for someone whose work and branding has focused so much on body positivity. The apology is a move to try and correct that, I think.

Interesting as well that we still aren't seeing Simone take a view on exactly where lines should be drawn. If I were her I'd probably try and avoid that, for now at least.

 

[JDB]

Nice hotel for the Panamerican championships.

 

[rlayt]

 

[Angelika]

There is no way Simone has written that herself - the PR machine has kicked in!

 

[rlayt]

You would be stupid to not hire PR teams when you have the resources to do so. Too bad so many celebrities politicians don’t care enough about what people think to hire help.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Definitely! If I had her money, I would clear up zero of my own messes.

 

[makam]

I saw an article about the swimmers response to Simone's apology, and it is exactly what you would expect from someone who has made shoveling hate and bootlicking conservatives their entire personality.

I'm also upset that she is getting to use Simone's popularity to increase her own standing. She probably should be paying the woman she tied with a "finders fee" for giving her something to make money on for as long as terrible people care so very much about the state of the genitalia of like less than 1% of the population.

 

[Big_rock_show]

There is no way Simone has written that herself - the PR machine has kicked in!

My thoughts exactly!!!!

But a warranted post, nonetheless.

 

[JaJa]

There is no way Simone has written that herself -

So what? Public figures need to have PR reps. Its prudent.