Indonesia cancels visas of Israeli worlds team

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

I think that Yali Shoshani had a chance to make the FX EF - she has a decent D-Score and is usually hovering in the low-8's for E-score. Sad that she might not have the opportunity to give ISR an EF spot.

 

[Seyonne]

Why can’t the FIG make the Israeli athletes unaffiliated? Could they get a visa then?

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

Why can’t the FIG make the Israeli athletes unaffiliated? Could they get a visa then?

Why should they (ISR) have to be unaffiliated? They are an FIG-affiliated member in good standing without sanction. They have the right to represent their nation.

 

[Matilda23]

Do the rules for hosting an event such as World Championships state that all participants must get a visa? If so, that is so odd- because a country’s government usually decides who can and can’t enter their country. They may look at someone’s behaviour and criminal record too.

 

[JDB]

Why can’t the FIG make the Israeli athletes unaffiliated? Could they get a visa then?

Suspending Israel (flag, anthem, etc) to appease a country with no stake in the Israel-Gaza War would be unwise. And Indonesia wouldn't have issued the visas regardless.

 

[RedBirdie]

Do the rules for hosting an event such as World Championships state that all participants must get a visa? If so, that is so odd- because a country’s government usually decides who can and can’t enter their country. They may look at someone’s behaviour and criminal record too.

Yes, unless their are truly extraordinary circumstances. "We hate Country X and refuse to issue visas to anyone from that country, no ifs, and, or buts," does not qualify as an extraordinary circumstances.

 

[RedBirdie]

Why can’t the FIG make the Israeli athletes unaffiliated? Could they get a visa then?

No, because they're still Israeli passport holders. No visas for Israelis, period.

And even if every member of the Israeli delegation held a second passport and tried to procure visas that way, Indonesia would still deny them. They know who the Israelis were planning to send. Indonesia would just deny the visas on the ground that they're Israelis trying to enter Indonesia under false pretenses.

 

[cats]

IMO in addition to sanctions, Indonesia should be pulled as the host. Unbrand everything. Remove Indonesia as the location in the result set. Tell the broadcasters not to give Indonesia any publicity except to report the facts about how this got screwed up.

FIG needs to write rules for remote competitions post haste. We have all kinds of political upheaval, pandemics, global economic worries, heck there was a period in 2011 that we were wondering if Worlds would be safe to travel to after Fukushima. There will be more competitions impacted by visa and travel issues, and they need to be ready. Plus it would open up such a huge opportunity for a better international season.

I don’t feel very comfortable with Israel getting judged remotely when the FIG has no regulations or even a mechanism for changing the rules of an event in an extreme circumstance. But it is less unfair than not letting them participate.

 

[MaryClare]

Why can’t the FIG make the Israeli athletes unaffiliated? Could they get a visa then?

No. They’d still be Israeli citizens applying for an Indonesian visa.

Theoretically, it would be possible that if any of them are dual nationals and were able to legitimately obtain a visa using a different passport they could enter the country using that visa but compete for israel. Thats not an uncommon scenario at all, the US born gymnasts representing other countries likely do this all the time.

 

[MaryClare]

No, because they're still Israeli passport holders. No visas for Israelis, period.

And even if every member of the Israeli delegation held a second passport and tried to procure visas that way, Indonesia would still deny them. They know who the Israelis were planning to send. Indonesia would just deny the visas on the ground that they're Israelis trying to enter Indonesia under false pretenses.

Yes exactly. Several countries prevent certain nationalities from entering the country and even tourists, if your passport contains stamps from certain places.

Which is going to be interesting ahead of euros in Yerevan…

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

IMO in addition to sanctions, Indonesia should be pulled as the host. Unbrand everything. Remove Indonesia as the location in the result set. Tell the broadcasters not to give Indonesia any publicity except to report the facts about how this got screwed up.

FIG needs to write rules for remote competitions post haste. We have all kinds of political upheaval, pandemics, global economic worries, heck there was a period in 2011 that we were wondering if Worlds would be safe to travel to after Fukushima. There will be more competitions impacted by visa and travel issues, and they need to be ready. Plus it would open up such a huge opportunity for a better international season.

I don’t feel very comfortable with Israel getting judged remotely when the FIG has no regulations or even a mechanism for changing the rules of an event in an extreme circumstance. But it is less unfair than not letting them participate.

Yes, it seems to be the least shit option available at this point. And even more so for the future. I assume FIG will fuck it up somehow, but if we let that be a reason not to do something then half the Olympics would be gone.

 

[OnlyBeansOnToast]

Why yes, I am filtering events of global geopolitical importance through the prism of gymnastics...

I find it far less depressing than filtering them through the prism of real life.

 

[Sasha]

 

[QuietColours]

Specifically relevant items: There are two appeals. The first one is asking for an annulment of the FIG statement issued on 10/10. It was rejected and has been terminated for lack of jurisdiction. The second appeal is asking for the FIG to take measures to ensure Israel can compete, or to move or cancel championships. The request for urgent provisional measures was rejected, but the appeal is still ongoing.

So Worlds will likely go forward while the case drags out. With no provisional measures being taken, it sounds to me like Israel won't be able to compete in any fashion unless Indonesia changes its mind. Whether or not the results will be held up in the future remains open.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Right, so we're going to have a worlds that may or may not morph into a non-worlds at some unspecified period in the future? I did not have this on my 2025 bingo card, perhaps foolishly. City championships indeed.

Trying to think if this could become more of a fiasco. Age faking is out these days, and they always check the vault table now, so druggy medallists maybe? AIN sweep that ultimately disappears into the ether?

 

[JaJa]

Specifically relevant items: There are two appeals. The first one is asking for an annulment of the FIG statement issued on 10/10. It was rejected and has been terminated for lack of jurisdiction. The second appeal is asking for the FIG to take measures to ensure Israel can compete, or to move or cancel championships. The request for urgent provisional measures was rejected, but the appeal is still ongoing.

So Worlds will likely go forward while the case drags out. With no provisional measures being taken, it sounds to me like Israel won't be able to compete in any fashion unless Indonesia changes its mind. Whether or not the results will be held up in the future remains open.

FIG indeed has no authority to "take measures to ensure Israel can compete". It can not order a sovereign nation to issue visas. And from a practical perspective it was too late to move worlds. Its only option is to cancel which we all know will not happen.