Chusovitina will attempt to qualify to Paris 2024, would be her 9th Olympics!

[Denn]

If she doesn't make it, I will feel a little bad, but then again, only a little because at this point in her career, she's not doing elite gymnastics anymore. There are literally thousands of gymnasts in the world who can do better gymnastics, including most of the NCAA.

But, it's still remarkable that the rules may allow her to squeak in.

I will say this, and I am dead serious: there should be a rule allowing for 2" sting mats for all vaults, dismounts, and saltos on floor once you pass the age of 35.

Perhaps once you reach 50, you should be able to get an 8-inch skill cushion!

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The Asian gymnastics championships are in Tashkent, so I think we have to assume that's the universe trying to send us a message...

Thinking about the competitors, several of the people who could get the Asian spot might still qualify through Doha. Malabuyo on floor and Ting Hua-Tien on beam would be nice to have out of the way. The latter broke 50 AA internationally last year. LJR also hit a 50 last year, but only domestically. She's still in with a chance on bars, albeit a lesser one.

 

[makam]

If she doesn't make it, I will feel a little bad, but then again, only a little because at this point in her career, she's not doing elite gymnastics anymore. There are literally thousands of gymnasts in the world who can do better gymnastics, including most of the NCAA.

But, it's still remarkable that the rules may allow her to squeak in.

I will say this, and I am dead serious: there should be a rule allowing for 2" sting mats for all vaults, dismounts, and saltos on floor once you pass the age of 35.

Perhaps once you reach 50, you should be able to get an 8-inch skill cushion!

I don't think they should have to wait til they are 35. Let them have a sting mats now if they want em! Build them into the floor corners. Safety first!

 

[KristyJ]

Don't build them into floor corners. There are all sorts of reasons why they should be optional (agree they should be available, but optional).

 

[makam]

Don't build them into floor corners. There are all sorts of reasons why they should be optional (agree they should be available, but optional).

Im willing to negotiate.. How about two corners with them and two regular corners? I figured most of the fig objection to them was aesthetics so biluilding them in would eliminate that, but there is probably a dumber real reason.

 

[KristyJ]

Im willing to negotiate.. How about rwo corners with them and two regular corners? I figured most of the fig objection to them was aesthetics so biluilding them in would eliminate that, but there is probably a dumber real reason.

That could be an okay alternative as long as it doesn't seem likely gymnasts will confuse the corners. I'm mostly concerned about gymnasts not wanting the squish there for rebounding skills or if they want to do dance/turns in the corner (even the common choreographic half turn).

 

[Denn]

If FIG really cared about aesthetics, they would remove the leap passage requirement because almost nobody does one that looks choreographic.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

Well-constructed floor exercises are built to show-case or highlight strengths of gymnasts and disguise/minimize qualities that the gymnast hasn't yet perfected. When performed, the highlights are usually aimed AT the judges. It would be challenging to try to figure out how to construct the exercise to do this, as sometimes judges are around the event and sometimes in a line, either on the floor or on a riser. Adding in trying to figure out which corners are 'soft' would be too much. FIG would have to send out the configuration of the apparatus/judging seating in the draft of the COP so choreographers have a starting point. Also, 'soft' corners would make stability in choreography before or after acro lines more challenging. The tactile sense of starting a run on a soft surface and transitioning onto a hard surface would also be startling for many gymnasts.

 

[makam]

Well-constructed floor exercises are built to show-case or highlight strengths of gymnasts and disguise/minimize qualities that the gymnast hasn't yet perfected. When performed, the highlights are usually aimed AT the judges. It would be challenging to try to figure out how to construct the exercise to do this, as sometimes judges are around the event and sometimes in a line, either on the floor or on a riser. Adding in trying to figure out which corners are 'soft' would be too much. FIG would have to send out the configuration of the apparatus/judging seating in the draft of the COP so choreographers have a starting point. Also, 'soft' corners would make stability in choreography before or after acro lines more challenging. The tactile sense of starting a run on a soft surface and transitioning onto a hard surface would also be startling for many gymnasts.

If they made is a consistent thing (corners 1 and 2 are soft, corners 3 and 4 are always hard/spring) then the gymnasts could work their choreography around it and if they can't do whatever skills in the soft corner, well, it would make them get out of the corner which FIG has been trying to do for years. I think people could get used to it like they got used to the vaulting table. In NCAA they have to dance around on the soft mat or get off it so it can be pulled away so they already work around it. And, let's be honest, elite floor choreography generally isn't anything to write home about and most people aren't going to worry about an athlete missing a handwave or whatever. Eh, it was just an idea. I also want the women to be allowed to wear shorts (if they wish) like the guys get to so I am all about "revolutionizing" the sport. ;-)

Consistent judging location seems like it would be a good thing no matter what the event. I had no idea they moved them around at events.

 

[Denn]

@FrolovasDoubleLayout brings up some good points, but so does @makam.

One of the core problems here is the square shape. It's a mess:

1. We literally have gymnasts TUMBLING INTO CORNERS. We are so used to it that we don't think about it but step back: it's absolutely asinine.
2. Lots of out-of-bounds deductions due to being slightly crooked. This is absurd.
3. The square shape is almost archaic — leftover from a distant past where the hardest tumble was a roundoff flip-flop double full.
4. You can't do long tumbles unless you're tiny.
5. Some parts of the mat are barely used. 90% of outside boundary is barely needed, too.
6. Some guys can barely do 3 steps + roundoff BHS + big trick because they risk going out of bounds.
7. The men almost exclusively use the diagonals. The rules have almost given up trying to fight it, too.
8. 12 meters square is big — some lower-cost gym spaces have poles in the middle of the floors or really squeeze the floor in.
9. Arenas are almost never square either.
10. Judges have to watch from all kinds of angles just to see the exercise.
11. It creates a situation where adding soft landing zones is complicated.
12. Gymnasts who really mess up on the diagonals can go off the mat entirely.
13. The line judge can't see both corners easily.
14. Putting landing mats in the corner is not only unattractive but also awkward — the boundary line is obscured and the mats sometimes hang off the edge of the floor.
15. During training, gymnasts have to look out for criss-crossing.

The solution: Rearrange it.

1. This mat has the same 144 square meter area.
2. It has a much smaller out of bounds area yet a larger out of bounds area functionally — safer.
3. It has just as much space for dance but actually is shaped like most stages.
4. The length is longer than the diagonal we use now, so gymnasts will have more space to tumble without going diagonally.
5. Less velcro is needed to hold it together.
6. No more issues of gymnasts landing in a corner.
7. It also will fit into more gym spaces and arenas. In fact, some gyms could probably fit two of these side by side where as doing two full floor mats is tricky in most spaces.
8. Judges could sit along one edge.
9. Line judges can literally sit along the line and easily judge — and likely deduct less often, too! In fact, let's put them to dual use somehow.
10. During training, there is NEVER an issue of gymnasts criss-crossing. You can constantly run 2, maybe even 3 lines at a time.
11. Less wasted space.
12. Putting a sting mat on the left or right end of a rectangle won't look as "unattractive" as laying mats in a corner. No more BS excuse for allowing for more safety.
13. The sting mat could be placed inside the lines safely — no confusion about going out of bounds. But even if it overlaps the line, it's easier to draw a line than a chalk corner.
14. The out of bounds area could be softer to protect gymnasts who fall or roll backwards.

 

[FlipSkippy]

@FrolovasDoubleLayout brings up some good points, but so does @makam.
View attachment 10205
One of the core problems here is the square shape. It's a mess:

1. We literally have gymnasts TUMBLING INTO CORNERS. We are so used to it that we don't think about it but step back: it's absolutely asinine.
2. Lots of out-of-bounds deductions due to being slightly crooked. This is absurd.
3. The square shape is almost archaic — leftover from a distant past where the hardest tumble was a roundoff flip-flop double full.
4. You can't do long tumbles unless you're tiny.
5. Some parts of the mat are barely used. 90% of outside boundary is barely needed, too.
6. Some guys can barely do 3 steps + roundoff BHS + big trick because they risk going out of bounds.
7. The men almost exclusively use the diagonals. The rules have almost given up trying to fight it, too.
8. 12 meters square is big — some lower-cost gym spaces have poles in the middle of the floors or really squeeze the floor in.
9. Arenas are almost never square either.
10. Judges have to watch from all kinds of angles just to see the exercise.
11. It creates a situation where adding soft landing zones is complicated.
12. Gymnasts who really mess up on the diagonals can go off the mat entirely.
13. The line judge can't see both corners easily.
14. Putting landing mats in the corner is not only unattractive but also awkward — the boundary line is obscured and the mats sometimes hang off the edge of the floor.
15. During training, gymnasts have to look out for criss-crossing.

The solution: Rearrange it.
View attachment 10204

1. This mat has the same 144 square meter area.
2. It has a much smaller out of bounds area yet a larger out of bounds area functionally — safer.
3. It has just as much space for dance but actually is shaped like most stages.
4. The length is longer than the diagonal we use now, so gymnasts will have more space to tumble without going diagonally.
5. Less velcro is needed to hold it together.
6. No more issues of gymnasts landing in a corner.
7. It also will fit into more gym spaces and arenas. In fact, some gyms could probably fit two of these side by side where as doing two full floor mats is tricky in most spaces.
8. Judges could sit along one edge.
9. Line judges can literally sit along the line and easily judge — and likely deduct less often, too! In fact, let's put them to dual use somehow.
10. During training, there is NEVER an issue of gymnasts criss-crossing. You can constantly run 2, maybe even 3 lines at a time.
11. Less wasted space.
12. Putting a sting mat on the left or right end of a rectangle won't look as "unattractive" as laying mats in a corner. No more BS excuse for allowing for more safety.
13. The sting mat could be placed inside the lines safely — no confusion about going out of bounds. But even if it overlaps the line, it's easier to draw a line than a chalk corner.
14. The out of bounds area could be softer to protect gymnasts who fall or roll backwards.

Intriguing idea! Literally thinking outside the box

 

[dweiss324]

You've got me thinking, what is the literal point of out of bounds? I can see alignment of a pass being a concern, as it is on vault. But there, amplitude and distance are rewarded.

I also understand the constraints of literally undefined boundaries, but it does seem like as tumbling difficulty and age (ie, size) of gymnasts increase, it is an arbitrary boundary and an inconvenient shape, when things like aesthetic and safety and performance should be higher priority. I can't think of another field that is square in shape. Even a ping pong table is a rectangle.

As a 6'3" guy, I remember in highschool, we had a section that extended beyond the floor diagonal and created a longer "strip", that we trained and competed on. We would set up our main gymnasium to host regionals for the women, and trying to tumble on a confined diagonal in a square was so scary that most of us wouldn't even attempt our normal passes, as the opportunity for landing on actual gym floor was so intimidating.

 

[Denn]

@dweiss324 Definitely all part of the rationale!

 

[Denn]

Intriguing idea! Literally thinking outside the box

LOL, indeed. And thank you!

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

For those following our heroine's progress, she did vault and bars today in Doha. Qualified in 4th to the vault final, her highest score being 12.233, and partied like it was 2004 on bars with 9.733. It looks like she fell, as she got a D score of 3.6 and E of 6.133. No videos as yet.

There are three Asian athletes competing in Doha who are still in contention for world cup spots and could also beat her in the continental AA if they don't make it. One of them is Levi Jung Ruivivar, who scraped into the bars final in 8th. So a good day for Chusovitina in that respect.

 

[navyblue]

I'm all for sting mats on vault, bars, beam, whatever, I don't really see the value in regulating that.

For floor it's a bit different since the surface itself really already is much more padded that on other events. But if optional sting mats were allowed, we should just have new mat designs that simply slot into the diamond shape of a floor corner instead of hanging off the edge and obscuring the boundaries.

I like Denn's more out-of-the-box suggestions about the floor apparatus itself, but I haven't had enough coffee to really think through all that.

 

[MrSixkiller]

Is Levi competing all around this season? Who else besides her is in the running for the AA spot? I would imagine athletes from North Korea and Taiwan would be in the mix.

 

[Ginger]

Is Levi competing all around this season? Who else besides her is in the running for the AA spot? I would imagine athletes from North Korea and Taiwan would be in the mix.

She did UB, BB and FX in Cairo. Not sure about VT, results only have those who competed VT (I believe Kaylia Nemour is doing AA too at Words Cups this year).

 

[esta]

Is Levi competing all around this season? Who else besides her is in the running for the AA spot? I would imagine athletes from North Korea and Taiwan would be in the mix.

Is Dipa Karmakar (or any of her teammates) going to Asian Championships? If so, is she an all-around contender as well?

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Is Levi competing all around this season? Who else besides her is in the running for the AA spot? I would imagine athletes from North Korea and Taiwan would be in the mix.

She hasn't yet. Last time she vaulted was US nationals in 2023.

Other contenders- we need to see what happens in Doha first. Also not many of the eligible Asian gymnasts have competed AA yet this year, so a lot of this is guesswork. Here are the Asian Games AA results from 2023.

https://www.gymmedia.com/AG/Asian-Games/2023-Hangzhou/AGw-AA-FIN.pdf

Ting Hua Tien got 50.299 in the AA final at the Asian Games, so would be competitive, but she may get the 2nd Doha beam spot. There were other Taiwanese gymnasts around the 49 mark at worlds.

Malabuyo hasn't done either vault or bars in elite this quad, but we know from NCAA that she'd be capable of competing AA if she wanted/needed to.

The North Koreans are, as ever, an enigma. They did well at the Asian Games, but the athletes they've sent to the world cup circuit this year have looked weaker than they did in 2023. Kim Su Jong came 3rd in the Asian Games and it's hard to see anyone beating 51.466 if she could do it again. But she hasn't competed at all, so we've no idea.

@esta Dipa got 49.550 in the Indian Nationals in January. Not sure if she's confirmed whether she'll go to the Asian championships or not. That's the only AA she's done since she got unbanned. If it's remotely reliable, she's a potential contender, but I don't know how much home cooking was involved. Don't think we got vids of anything other than vault.

I'm no doubt missing people, so feel free to chime in.