2025 World Gymnastics Championships, Apparatus Finals Day 1, October 24

[Denn]

Watch her use backwards twisting technique off the table. I do hope she doesn't figure out how to get the second hand on the table with that technique because she is doing a quarter on, bw 1 3/4 off. It's a little bit like Kasamatsu technique but doesn't use pure fwd salto and fwd twisting because she gets on the table as if she did a Tsuk. Even if she figures out the second hand, the vault should be judged much more harshly because it is a Kas/Tsuk hybrid in disguise.

I've been calling it "Chengmatsu" because the repulsion and post-flight are exactly the same as a Kasamatsu-full. It's more like a sideways salto with twist.

My understanding is that, even if she pushes with the second hand, there's 0.4 in deductions to take.

But I don't understand why there's only a ≤45° deduction. Schoenmaier is about 90° short in her preflight turn. And 0.3 is a harsh deduction for being just a little short of preflight twist. I would love to see 0.1 for ≤ 30°, 0.3 for 31°-60°, and 0.5 for 60°–90°.

I also think that, while they're at it, they should clarify that Kasamatsu repulsion/post-flight is closer to a salto forward and therefore cannot earn 0.2 bonus when the other vault is a forward vault ... unless the vaults have different number of saltos (e.g. Kas-full and Produnova).

and Limit the staggered hand placement deduction to vaults with no preflight turn, since the preflight turn deduction can be used to penalize the same error Sorry, I take that back. Obviously, hands can be staggered with complete twist.

What do you all think?

 

[Passion]

Update on Zója Székely.

Mindenki erre várt: megszólalt az ijesztő sérüléséről a szépséges magyar sportolónő - ORIGO

Friss hírek Magyarországról és a nagyvilágból, sport, technika, szórakozás, tudomány, kultúra. Az ORIGO a legfrissebb hazai és nemzetközi hírekkel szolgál olvasói számára.

www.origo.hu

Through Google Translate:

We reported in Origo that Zója Székely finished 8th on the uneven bars at the World Gymnastics Championships while competing with an injury. In connection with the incident, Zója Székely, who chose to jump off the original hurdle despite violating her coach's instructions, paid a heavy price for her indiscipline, collapsing upon landing and unable to get back on her feet. Now, she has spoken out about her condition.

Zója Székely stated that if it were up to her, her knee, which she injured at the World Gymnastics Championships in Jakarta, would recover quickly. "I have pain in my leg. I still need to have a thorough examination at home to see exactly what the problem is and where I need to go with the rehabilitation, but I am absolutely fine in my head and I am very confident. I feel that if it were up to me, I would recover quickly." the 22-year-old athlete said on Saturday on the M1 current affairs channel.

Zoja Székely did not give up the tournament even though she was injured.​

Zója Székely suffered a bone bruise in both knees during the individual all-around final on Thursday and was unable to finish the competition. Despite this, she took on the uneven bar final on Friday, in which she aimed to perform a modified routine. The 2020 European Championship silver medalist ultimately decided to finish the routine with her original dismount, but was unable to finish the landing, finishing eighth.

“The thing is, I often have a problem with my temper. I am an athlete, my personality is like that. I felt that I had a good practice behind me, and we have very, very little time to make decisions at times like this.” she said. She added that she made a split-second decision before the dismount, and although it is very easy to consider it in retrospect, she simply could not resist trying. “I would be lying if I said that my leg was not worse than the day before. That landing definitely worsened the position of my right leg, but I can’t say for sure yet.” said the FTC-Telekom gymnast.

She emphasized that she will definitely receive proper care at home and be surrounded by a proper team, which is why rehabilitation is already being planned, which she would like to start as soon as possible. Székely stated that she will travel home not completely sad, but with very mixed emotions, because she has been through both heaven and hell. On the one hand, an injury never comes at a good time, and on the other hand, she achieved something superhuman by becoming a World Championship finalist in both the uneven bars and individual all-around.

 

[ruby]

I've been calling it "Chengmatsu" because the repulsion and post-flight are exactly the same as a Kasamatsu-full. It's more like a sideways salto with twist.

My understanding is that, even if she pushes with the second hand, there's 0.4 in deductions to take. View attachment 13091
But I don't understand why there's only a ≤45° deduction. Schoenmaier is about 90° short in her preflight turn. And 0.3 is a harsh deduction for being just a little short of preflight twist. I would love to see 0.1 for ≤ 30°, 0.3 for 31°-60°, and 0.5 for 60°–90°.

I also think that, while they're at it, they should clarify that Kasamatsu repulsion/post-flight is closer to a salto forward and therefore cannot earn 0.2 bonus when the other vault is a forward vault ... unless the vaults have different number of saltos (e.g. Kas-full and Produnova).

and Limit the staggered hand placement deduction to vaults with no preflight turn, since the preflight turn deduction can be used to penalize the same error Sorry, I take that back. Obviously, hands can be staggered with complete twist.

What do you all think?

I think vault deductions need to be overhauled or rather, the approach to the whole event needs to be reconsidered. Glaring technical and/or form errors need to be judged much more harshly to bring the results in line with other events. At the very least, two different vaults, with deductions for both vaults taken off the same 10.0 E start should be required for all phases of competition.

Deductions for lack of completion of turn are fine - small increments are incredibly hard to see in real time unless you are allowed to focus on pre- flight and push-off only.

 

[Denn]

I think vault deductions need to be overhauled or rather, the approach to the whole event needs to be reconsidered. Glaring technical and/or form errors need to be judged much more harshly to bring the results in line with other events. At the very least, two different vaults, with deductions for both vaults taken off the same 10.0 E start should be required for all phases of competition.

I agree with this 100% — I have been saying this for about 20 years in fact.

Do you remember when they had that rule for about 5 minutes back in... 2013 or 2017? But I think the two TCs made some mistakes with how they set it up. There were too many questions about averaging. I think the best way is to cut the D-scores in half so they just get added and not averaged.

I've never seen pre- and post- judged by different judges but that's an interesting idea.

US juniors have their run and board position judged as well. It can be a lot to take in and accurately record in real time, actually.

 

[ruby]

Yes, there've been a few attempts to change that about vault. I actually don"t know why the changes never made it into the final version of the Code. I agree that D scores must be added. I would keep a bonus for different post-flight, maybe add a bonus for different board-entry as well.

 

[makam]

For vault, I would be game for letting the judges see a replay at half speed 1 time before putting in their scores.

 

[Denn]

Yes, there've been a few attempts to change that about vault. I actually don"t know why the changes never made it into the final version of the Code. I agree that D scores must be added. I would keep a bonus for different post-flight, maybe add a bonus for different board-entry as well.

I think that one time (I think it was 2013?) it WAS in the final version of the code, no? But they went back on it within a matter of weeks.

Agreed on the different post-flight bonus — as well as a different repulsion phase bonus. And if you wanted to do board entry bonus for roundoff half-on and roundoff ¾ on, those vaults could just be removed, making, say, Cheng + Rudi not a possible combo of vaults since the post-flights are the same. On the other hand, I think people would be sad if Cheng and Chusovitina weren't both listed in the Code...

 

[eanda]

I think that one time (I think it was 2013?) it WAS in the final version of the code, no? But they went back on it within a matter of weeks.

I think you’re right, that it did make a final version, but ended up being very short-lived. It’s unfortunate that sorting it out wasn’t pursued, it’s very much needed. I would say 2009 or 2013, just my feeling it wasn’t as (relatively) recent as 2017.