Event 2025 US Nationals Senior Women Day 2 (Sunday, August 10, 2025)

[RichardL]

I've rewatched and Wong should have won. @Doug1233?

ETA: Just a completely different pen to judge Rivera during the push for her to be the AA winner... USAG is ridiculous and doesn't understand that Rivera losing does not mean the end of all engagement with fans lol, my god.

Also I am a HUGE fan of the Rivera who is hitting these routines. And I'm really hoping Wong ups the D-score game for selection camp beyond the Cheng to really push her. I won't be surprised if Wong wins and Rivera has a rough meet there and they have to decide what to do (in terms of someone like Hang also scoring really well there).

 

[RedBirdie]

I've rewatched and Wong should have won. @Doug1233?

ETA: Just a completely different pen to judge Rivera during the push for her to be the AA winner... USAG is ridiculous and doesn't understand that Rivera losing does not mean the end of all engagement with fans lol, my god.

The USAG judges open love of Rivera is well documented. Her 2023 US Classic beam disaster that inexplicitly received a 6.05 e score with three falls is Exhibit A.

 

[crdubb17]

I wonder if Leanne has ever trained a front double full? For worlds I’d love: Silivas, whip half +front double full (or DLO), 2.5+barani/front layout. Her D score would go up like a half a point, and I really don’t think that’s a far fetched upgrade. She’s always been a competent twister.

I’m still shocked more people aren’t doing rebounding tumbling given the major bump in bonus they get for it in this code. All of my kids would be training whip half/front lay +front double full+ front lay/barani. This is basically the equivalent of Aly’s iconic opening pass, less a tenth! Wildly valuable.

I might be incorrect in my code understanding, but it’s crazy to think someone could amass an entire point in CV alone from a three pass routine with no big E elements:
Whip half +front double full + barani (.4)
Front full or whip full through to 2.5+front lay (.4)
1.5 through to double tuck (.2)

We’ve seen all of these passes be done before in some variation. It’s definitely possible.

 

[RichardL]

Maybe we'll see them! We already have Caylor doing whip full through to double back punch front, and Jayla Hang gets great power out of her whip full as well, potential upgrades there too.

 

[Aeris]

Need more front lay stepout connections. Do the Pavlova!

 

[crdubb17]

Need more front lay stepout connections. Do the Pavlova!

I literally think about this all of the time. Tell me a whip half + front double full +front lay step out wouldn’t be a SERVE. Or 1.5 through to 2.5+front lay stepout? Yes please! Since the change in the code, I’ve been dreaming up passes that end with punch front layout stepouts and punch barani stepouts (think Katie Heenan) to avoid landing deductions and give aesthetically pleasing moments!

 

[Aeris]

Barani stepout is great too, maybe even the most stickable B connection, since it allows a lunge position. Aerial cartwheel is another lunge option. We definitely should be seeing way more connections. Along with the "dance" connections that are available, the goal should be to end almost every acro line with some kind of A/B skill. Need to start normalizing it in training, that's what the code rewards.

 

[navyblue]

I wonder if Leanne has ever trained a front double full? For worlds I’d love: Silivas, whip half +front double full (or DLO), 2.5+barani/front layout

There's so much to pick from with passes she's already shown. She has a remarkable diversity of tumbling elements, and she's done them all pretty dang well with maybe the exception of the 3.5 which has caused her some trouble a few times:

• Silivas
• Double layout
• Arabian Double Pike + stag
• 2.5 twist punch front layout and punch front full
• Whip Triple Twist (favorite) and Triple Twist
• 3.5 twist!!
• Double Pike
• Easier stuff for her college routines like the whip 1/2 front full

I think it's a shame that she's never really been able to package her excellent tumbling and above-average artistry/presentation into a way that has made her a reliable floor contender (her 2021 worlds bronze notwithstanding).

 

[phoenix7]

I kept expecting Ana Barbosu to bring back her rebound on the final pass as the stakes got higher with each floor routine at Euros.

But she only ever did it at the Olympics. If she brings that back for worlds she can get up over 14.

 

[MaryClare]

Was Jordyn Wieber in 2012 the last time the national champion was trained outside of Texas?

 

[RichardL]

Was Jordyn Wieber in 2012 the last time the national champion was trained outside of Texas?

9x Biles right? And then Smith (17) + McClain (22) + Rivera (25)?

 

[wishfulgoddess]

I think Leanne might have the same problem that I did as a gymnast. Perfectionism limited my difficulty because I didn't feel ready to compete a skill unless I could do it perfectly most of the time. If there were any built-in deductions in my form or technique, I wasn't satisfied. Leanne would be unstoppable on floor if she had the D score she is capable of getting. She is one of my all-time favorites, anyway, because I'm an artistry *****, but I'd be interested in seeing what upgrades she could add. If anybody had to beat her at Nationals, I'm glad it was Hezly. When I first saw her as a junior, I wrote her name down as one to keep an eye on because she impressed me. I actually remember doing the same with Leanne back in the day.

 

[MaryClare]

I think Leanne might have the same problem that I did as a gymnast. Perfectionism limited my difficulty because I didn't feel ready to compete a skill unless I could do it perfectly most of the time. If there were any built-in deductions in my form or technique, I wasn't satisfied. Leanne would be unstoppable on floor if she had the D score she is capable of getting. She is one of my all-time favorites, anyway, because I'm an artistry *****, but I'd be interested in seeing what upgrades she could add. If anybody had to beat her at Nationals, I'm glad it was Hezly. When I first saw her as a junior, I wrote her name down as one to keep an eye on because she impressed me. I actually remember doing the same with Leanne back in the day.

Yep, that was classic Kyla Ross too

 

[RichardL]

Yep, that was classic Kyla Ross too

... which really showed when Simone Biles emerged the year after Ross turned senior, preventing her from being a World AA champion mostly because of D scores.

 

[RedBirdie]

Was Jordyn Wieber in 2012 the last time the national champion was trained outside of Texas?

In this century, here are the only national AA champs who trained outside of Texas
2012: Wieber (MI)
2011: Wieber (MI)
2009: Sloan (IN)
2008: Johnson (IA)
2007: Johnson (IA)
2004: Kupets (MD) Patterson tied for first
2003: Kupets (MD)
2002: Schwikert (NV)
2001: Schwikert (NV)
2000: Ray (MD)

 

[RichardL]

And in the 90s we had Zmeskal (90, 91, 92) and Moceanu (95) both training in Texas.

 

[RedBirdie]

Interesting, the juniors are much more varied. The last 5 have all been from Texas, but so far about half of all junior winners train somewhere other than Texas.

Just as interesting, imo, is the fact that winning juniors in the last 15 years doesn't mean anything as far as senior success. Of the 10 junior winners from 2010 to 2023 (O'Keefe won twice), 8 of them never made a world or olympic team--and DiCello only barely counts since she was sent to the weird 2021 worlds and was an alternate for 2021 olympics and 2023 worlds. Heck, if not for the record number of injuries at Trials last year, Rivera wouldn't have made Paris. Of late, junior success is not assurance of senior success--which was not the case from 2000-2009.

 

[MaryClare]

Interesting, the juniors are much more varied. The last 5 have all been from Texas, but so far about half of all junior winners train somewhere other than Texas.

Just as interesting, imo, is the fact that winning juniors in the last 15 years doesn't mean anything as far as senior success. Of the 10 junior winners from 2010 to 2023 (O'Keefe won twice), 8 of them never made a world or olympic team--and DiCello only barely counts since she was sent to the weird 2021 worlds and was an alternate for 2021 olympics and 2023 worlds. Heck, if not for the record number of injuries at Trials last year, Rivera wouldn't have made Paris. Of late, junior success is not assurance of senior success--which was not the case from 2000-2009.

2000-2009 iconically was probably the US’s worst period of squandered talent. I’d even say it extended right the way through to 2012. It still blows my mind that Biles’ Amanar wasn’t enough to win vault at 2012 junior nationals. That was a ridiculous group of gymnasts. Biles, Ohashi, Priessman and Desch all turned senior in 2013. Its almost as if the other 3 were trained by Valeri Liukin, Mary Lee Tracy and Al Fong.

 

[RedBirdie]

Biles won vault in 2012. 2000-2009 may not have won all the medals internationally that they were capable of, but juniors who finished top-3 AA at nationals went on to make (and compete) at worlds or olympics 77% of the time. For 2010-2019, it was only 47% of the time.

Really want to blow your mind about how badly managed the juniors who competed at 2012 championships were? Only 3 of them would ever make a world or olympic team: Biles (3rd), Nichols (11th), and Hernandez (21st).

 

[MaryClare]

Biles won vault in 2012. 2000-2009 may not have won all the medals internationally that they were capable of, but juniors who finished top-3 AA at nationals went on to make (and compete) at worlds or olympics 77% of the time. For 2010-2019, it was only 47% of the time.

Really want to blow your mind about how badly managed the juniors who competed at 2012 championships were? Only 3 of them would ever make a world or olympic team: Biles (3rd), Nichols (11th), and Hernandez (21st).

Was it AA she didn’t win?

2010-2015 seems to have been the peak years of toxicity from the whole Martha/ranch system.

2016 she seemed to be remarkably “chill”, particularly in her dealings with Simone, Aly and Gabby.