To Set or Not to Set, going up or whipping back is the question

[Aeris]

I can do a lot of things with my feet pointed and my legs parallel, but it doesn't mean what I'm doing is either mechanically correct or aesthetically pleasing.

But do you think uneven legs and flexed feet are "mechanically correct"? I don't get why some people are trying to crucify Shawn for a whippier technique when her overall form is actually better, or not worse, than examples of supposedly better technique. Very few skills are "perfectly" executed.

Moreover, her form is better in the ways that the judging system cares about. If someone has a whippier technique (which isn't a deduction) but is otherwise doing the skill well, it's likely not beneficial to change that gymnast's technique. People are raving Chelsie's double pike dismount when she has 3 deductions on it (feet, legs in the air, legs apart on landing) and still isn't keeping her chest high enough on the landing to always avoid a deduction there. If you have a gymnast with a "worse" set who is able to keep their legs completely together that way, you're hurting their score if you force them to a "better" set that results in their legs and feet becoming untidy.

 

[Aizheng]

But do you think uneven legs and flexed feet are "mechanically correct"? I don't get why some people are trying to crucify Shawn for a whippier technique when her overall form is actually better, or not worse, than examples of supposedly better technique. Very few skills are "perfectly" executed.

Moreover, her form is better in the ways that the judging system cares about. If someone has a whippier technique (which isn't a deduction) but is otherwise doing the skill well, it's likely not beneficial to change that gymnast's technique. People are raving Chelsie's double pike dismount when she has 3 deductions on it (feet, legs in the air, legs apart on landing) and still isn't keeping her chest high enough on the landing to always avoid a deduction there. If you have a gymnast with a "worse" set who is able to keep their legs completely together that way, you're hurting their score if you force them to a "better" set that results in their legs and feet becoming untidy.

Aah, the age- old discussion of form vs technique. Paseka’s cheng vs skinner’s cheng, in essence.
To me, technique should win over form, although I agree that the COP tends to reward form over technique, though there are deductions that are much more likely if you have bad technique (like height, low chest deductions ).

My impression is also that bad technique could lead to injuries, as it makes it more likely to land short, but I have not seen a study investigating this.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Bad technique also makes skills more difficult, if not impossible, when somebody grows. When you're already landing with your face in your knees at 15/16 and 4'6", you'd essentially have to relearn the skill at 19/20 and 4'9". Toepoint and legs stuck together doesn't overcome that. Note that Shawn took out her back full and full-in dismount in 2011. I don't think it was as much her knee as it was a few inches of growth. If anything, her knee injury prohibited her from having the time to relearn those skills before staging her comeback.

I've said before, had Shawn been taught proper technique and her coaches focused on her flexibility for jumps and leaps, she would've been virtually unbeatable.

 

[MaryClare]

Bad technique also makes skills more difficult, if not impossible, when somebody grows. When you're already landing with your face in your knees at 15/16 and 4'6", you'd essentially have to relearn the skill at 19/20 and 4'9". Toepoint and legs stuck together doesn't overcome that. Note that Shawn took out her back full and full-in dismount in 2011. I don't think it was as much her knee as it was a few inches of growth. If anything, her knee injury prohibited her from having the time to relearn those skills before staging her comeback.

I've said before, had Shawn been taught proper technique and her coaches focused on her flexibility for jumps and leaps, she would've been virtually unbeatable.

The US has had some insanely naturally talented gymnasts who have failed to reach their absolute potential solely due to less than world class coaching

 

[Aizheng]

The US has had some insanely naturally talented gymnasts who have failed to reach their absolute potential solely due to less than world class coaching

This makes Simone Biles even more amazing to me at least. She was one of these insanely naturally talented gymnasts, but she actually learned proper technique. I recently rewatched one of the BBC coverages of I think 2014 all-around (maybe it was 2015), and Christine really makes it a point to say that Simone’s technique is impeccable, which seems somewhat rare for such a naturally powerful athlete.

Really seems like Amy Boorman was the perfect coach for her, focusing on basics and things that probably were not the most fun all the time for Simone. It was also notable how Simone cleaned up a lot in her early elite days (2012 to 2014 is a really big difference, not only in D, but also in E score), but it really looks like she “only” had to clean up her form.
I wish coaches would take this to heart more, focusing on good technique earlier, possibly keeping kids in lower levels while they already train some harder skills without landing them to ensure they have the proper technique without being bored.

 

[Aeris]

This makes Simone Biles even more amazing to me at least. She was one of these insanely naturally talented gymnasts, but she actually learned proper technique.

Simone arches her head back the same as Shawn when doing her back pike on beam. She did the same for her double pike dismount (which had better form and landed with a higher chest than Chelsie's). But sure, go ahead and spend time trying to force Simone to keep her head pointing forward at the start of those skills.