REWIND : WEEK FIVE 21/10 : 1985 World Championship

[IratePanda]

I've mostly watched to the end--skipped a few bits that didn't interest me. I never realized that the judges tried to resolve the tiebreaker. American TV coverage made the joint gold seem very cut-and-dried.

I still wonder what might have happened if Baraksanova had competed in the AA final instead of Shushunova. Would Baraksanova have enjoyed a longer, more successful career? She looked pretty bad in early 1986 (shaky performance at the American Cup, dead last at USA vs. USSR), but I always felt that she just gave up after Montreal. She was still beautiful to watch, but she lacked drive and confidence.

If Shushunova hadn't competed in the AA, how might her career have unfolded? Would she still have won in 1988, or would she have fizzled out like Baraksanova did?

My heart still breaks for Yurchenko.

It was nice to see some lesser-known and/or underrated gymnasts, most notably Anja Wilhelm/FRG and Bojanka Demireva/BUL. I've been meaning to start a thread celebrating hidden gems of the 70s and 80s, and these two would get top billing.

Adorable moment: A Japanese gymnast (Maiko Morio?) shook hands with Alena Drevjana/TCH, who then gave her a kiss. The Japanese gymnast laughed with a mixture of surprise and delight.

On a personal note, this was the last Worlds when I was younger than most of the athletes. I say "most of" because some of the ROM ages were, ahem, fudged. (Silivas was ostensibly one year my senior--almost to the day--but in reality, she's at least a year younger than I am.)

ETA: It's very strange to watch Camelia Voinea 39 years before the Paris FX fiasco.

Good stuff! What shall we watch next?

 

[Hatsumomo]

I've only seen bits and pieces of this competition. This will be a good watch while convalescing.

 

[MaryClare]

I've mostly watched to the end--skipped a few bits that didn't interest me. I never realized that the judges tried to resolve the tiebreaker. American TV coverage made the joint gold seem very cut-and-dried.

I still wonder what might have happened if Baraksanova had competed in the AA final instead of Shushunova. Would Baraksanova have enjoyed a longer, more successful career? She looked pretty bad in early 1986 (shaky performance at the American Cup, dead last at USA vs. USSR), but I always felt that she just gave up after Montreal. She was still beautiful to watch, but she lacked drive and confidence.

If Shushunova hadn't competed in the AA, how might her career have unfolded? Would she still have won in 1988, or would she have fizzled out like Baraksanova did?

My heart still breaks for Yurchenko.

It was nice to see some lesser-known and/or underrated gymnasts, most notably Anja Wilhelm/FRG and Bojanka Demireva/BUL. I've been meaning to start a thread celebrating hidden gems of the 70s and 80s, and these two would get top billing.

Adorable moment: A Japanese gymnast (Maiko Morio?) shook hands with Alena Drevjana/TCH, who then gave her a kiss. The Japanese gymnast laughed with a mixture of surprise and delight.

On a personal note, this was the last Worlds when I was younger than most of the athletes. I say "most of" because some of the ROM ages were, ahem, fudged. (Silivas was ostensibly one year my senior--almost to the day--but in reality, she's at least a year younger than I am.)

ETA: It's very strange to watch Camelia Voinea 39 years before the Paris FX fiasco.

Good stuff! What shall we watch next?

It’s very strange to watch Camelia Voinea 39 years before the Paris fiasco because she looks absolutely nothing like Camelia Voinea

 

[IratePanda]

It’s very strange to watch Camelia Voinea 39 years before the Paris fiasco because she looks absolutely nothing like Camelia Voinea

Whoops, I'm not really sure what I meant to say there. But to be blunt, I didn't like Voinea's gymnastics back then (not even the breakdancing FX), and I don't think much of her now.

On a more serious note, it's very disconcerting to hear the commentators speak so highly of US coach Don Peters.

(Trigger warning)

Former U.S. national team member Doe Yamashiro files lawsuit against O.C. gymnastics coach

The lawsuit was filed in Orange County Superior Court on March 9.

www.latimes.com

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

It’s very strange to watch Camelia Voinea 39 years before the Paris fiasco because she looks absolutely nothing like Camelia Voinea

To be fair, I’m not sure dollar store cosmetics were available in as many eye-searing shades as they are now.

 

[Hatsumomo]

To be fair, I’m not sure dollar store cosmetics were available in as many eye-searing shades as they are now.

In the ‘80s???

 

[MaryClare]

In the ‘80s???

In Ceaucescu’s Romania? You were lucky if you had toilet paper

 

[RAFIKI]

Arena/format

• Plants, all the plants!
• I liked that each event had its own logo.
• Many of the competitions we've watched so far have had water coolers on the competition floor. Does this still happen?
• The yellow casing of the judges' monitors made me recoil every time!
• The tiebreak breaking possibilities sounded wild, breaking ties based on higher score for each event in Olympic order seems pretty unfair. Was this ever actually the rule?
• Was that Land of Hope and Glory being used for the medal ceremony music? Odd choice.

Commentary/coverage

• Some fine beards/moustaches on show from the presenting team. I had no idea that channel four showed gymnastics back in the day. The channel would have only been three years old in 1985.
• The substitution discussion was fascinating and I also like how strong the commentators were with their opinions on the judging (e.g. Omelianchik's BB gift). These days commentators often caveat their comments with statements like "perhaps they saw something we didn't" but here they didn't beat about the bush. Lots of "should get deducted for that" as well. They, well Monica as is her trademark, were also pretty blunt about the abilities of gymnasts e.g. "doesn't stand a chance of a medal", disparaging about how poorly ranked the Chinese gymnasts were.
• Grrrr at the camera zoom in during Silivas on BB so you couldn't see the move, I guess nothing changes.
• "Like a monkey on poles" ummmmmmm?
• In contrast there was some insightful commentary about amplitude differences in Tkatchevs.
• Re the discussion about using Russian instead of Soviet. I'd assumed this was more of an occasional thing and was really surprised that it happened every single time.
• "Tourischeva does like to see fair play" was an amusing comment given she was disciplined for her judging in 1996. IG had a column about it pointing out she was nodding in time to UKR UB routines when she should have been judging her own event (FX?).
• Monica didn't just bash gymnasts for not smiling (Simonescu).
• I shall try and use the "smashing" and "marvellous" more!

Gymnasts

• Szabo's 3/4 spin to side Y scale was a nice touch. I have zero knowledge of scoring during this period but based on the routines seen by this point I also thought her score seemed low.
• Voinea had some nice direction changes on UB.
• Omelianchik's forward rolls on BB appealed to me and I loved the time she had in the 2X dismount, she finished twisting very early. The audience reaction to her B2B tumbling was great, don't recall noticing that as much when watching routines in isolation.
• Ah the 80s, pink legwarmers, rainbow leotards, the hair...it's all there!
• Ricna's BB series stood out.
• I liked Huang Qun's cat leap to splits on FX.
• Shushanova had a great BB planche.
• I really hadn't seen much of Yurchenko before but I enjoyed her gymnastics a lot.

Gymnastics

• Has anyone competed cuervos recently?
• I wasn't aware of the BB trend to do a move an half turn on the beam during landing.
• Tucked Pak was cool to see given one of my fantasy moves is a double tucked Pak transition.
• I enjoyed the variety of spin positions on FX.
• This was a really interesting time for UB with the mix of releases still common today and old school close-bars skills.
• Overall I enjoyed a lot of this but I wasn't amazed. 80s gymnastics is cherished but I can't say I was gripped or bowled over by artistry and dance on FX. Perhaps that's because I'd seen the outstanding routines already and the quality didn't extend a long way down? Once again BB was my favourite event to watch (aside from jump amplitude if you weren't from a top team). The creativity and confidence was on another level.

Nostalgia/personal

• We also used to call ROs arabsprings in primary school but I've never heard it since. Wonder when it switched?

 

[MaryClare]

Arena/format

• Plants, all the plants!
• I liked that each event had its own logo.
• Many of the competitions we've watched so far have had water coolers on the competition floor. Does this still happen?
• The yellow casing of the judges' monitors made me recoil every time!
• The tiebreak breaking possibilities sounded wild, breaking ties based on higher score for each event in Olympic order seems pretty unfair. Was this ever actually the rule?
• Was that Land of Hope and Glory being used for the medal ceremony music? Odd choice.

Commentary/coverage

• Some fine beards/moustaches on show from the presenting team. I had no idea that channel four showed gymnastics back in the day. The channel would have only been three years old in 1985.
• The substitution discussion was fascinating and I also like how strong the commentators were with their opinions on the judging (e.g. Omelianchik's BB gift). These days commentators often caveat their comments with statements like "perhaps they saw something we didn't" but here they didn't beat about the bush. Lots of "should get deducted for that" as well. They, well Monica as is her trademark, were also pretty blunt about the abilities of gymnasts e.g. "doesn't stand a chance of a medal", disparaging about how poorly ranked the Chinese gymnasts were.
• Grrrr at the camera zoom in during Silivas on BB so you couldn't see the move, I guess nothing changes.
• "Like a monkey on poles" ummmmmmm?
• In contrast there was some insightful commentary about amplitude differences in Tkatchevs.
• Re the discussion about using Russian instead of Soviet. I'd assumed this was more of an occasional thing and was really surprised that it happened every single time.
• "Tourischeva does like to see fair play" was an amusing comment given she was disciplined for her judging in 1996. IG had a column about it pointing out she was nodding in time to UKR UB routines when she should have been judging her own event (FX?).
• Monica didn't just bash gymnasts for not smiling (Simonescu).
• I shall try and use the "smashing" and "marvellous" more!

Gymnasts

• Szabo's 3/4 spin to side Y scale was a nice touch. I have zero knowledge of scoring during this period but based on the routines seen by this point I also thought her score seemed low.
• Voinea had some nice direction changes on UB.
• Omelianchik's forward rolls on BB appealed to me and I loved the time she had in the 2X dismount, she finished twisting very early. The audience reaction to her B2B tumbling was great, don't recall noticing that as much when watching routines in isolation.
• Ah the 80s, pink legwarmers, rainbow leotards, the hair...it's all there!
• Ricna's BB series stood out.
• I liked Huang Qun's cat leap to splits on FX.
• Shushanova had a great BB planche.
• I really hadn't seen much of Yurchenko before but I enjoyed her gymnastics a lot.

Gymnastics

• Has anyone competed cuervos recently?
• I wasn't aware of the BB trend to do a move an half turn on the beam during landing.
• Tucked Pak was cool to see given one of my fantasy moves is a double tucked Pak transition.
• I enjoyed the variety of spin positions on FX.
• This was a really interesting time for UB with the mix of releases still common today and old school close-bars skills.
• Overall I enjoyed a lot of this but I wasn't amazed. 80s gymnastics is cherished but I can't say I was gripped or bowled over by artistry and dance on FX. Perhaps that's because I'd seen the outstanding routines already and the quality didn't extend a long way down? Once again BB was my favourite event to watch (aside from jump amplitude if you weren't from a top team). The creativity and confidence was on another level.

Nostalgia/personal

• We also used to call ROs arabsprings in primary school but I've never heard it since. Wonder when it switched?

It was itv who showed it, not channel 4. I think itv showed quite a bit of gymnastics at that time, like the Kraft international

 

[IratePanda]

Arena/format

• Plants, all the plants!
• I liked that each event had its own logo.
• Many of the competitions we've watched so far have had water coolers on the competition floor. Does this still happen?
• The yellow casing of the judges' monitors made me recoil every time!
• The tiebreak breaking possibilities sounded wild, breaking ties based on higher score for each event in Olympic order seems pretty unfair. Was this ever actually the rule?
• Was that Land of Hope and Glory being used for the medal ceremony music? Odd choice.

Commentary/coverage

• Some fine beards/moustaches on show from the presenting team. I had no idea that channel four showed gymnastics back in the day. The channel would have only been three years old in 1985.
• The substitution discussion was fascinating and I also like how strong the commentators were with their opinions on the judging (e.g. Omelianchik's BB gift). These days commentators often caveat their comments with statements like "perhaps they saw something we didn't" but here they didn't beat about the bush. Lots of "should get deducted for that" as well. They, well Monica as is her trademark, were also pretty blunt about the abilities of gymnasts e.g. "doesn't stand a chance of a medal", disparaging about how poorly ranked the Chinese gymnasts were.
• Grrrr at the camera zoom in during Silivas on BB so you couldn't see the move, I guess nothing changes.
• "Like a monkey on poles" ummmmmmm?
• In contrast there was some insightful commentary about amplitude differences in Tkatchevs.
• Re the discussion about using Russian instead of Soviet. I'd assumed this was more of an occasional thing and was really surprised that it happened every single time.
• "Tourischeva does like to see fair play" was an amusing comment given she was disciplined for her judging in 1996. IG had a column about it pointing out she was nodding in time to UKR UB routines when she should have been judging her own event (FX?).
• Monica didn't just bash gymnasts for not smiling (Simonescu).
• I shall try and use the "smashing" and "marvellous" more!

Gymnasts

• Szabo's 3/4 spin to side Y scale was a nice touch. I have zero knowledge of scoring during this period but based on the routines seen by this point I also thought her score seemed low.
• Voinea had some nice direction changes on UB.
• Omelianchik's forward rolls on BB appealed to me and I loved the time she had in the 2X dismount, she finished twisting very early. The audience reaction to her B2B tumbling was great, don't recall noticing that as much when watching routines in isolation.
• Ah the 80s, pink legwarmers, rainbow leotards, the hair...it's all there!
• Ricna's BB series stood out.
• I liked Huang Qun's cat leap to splits on FX.
• Shushanova had a great BB planche.
• I really hadn't seen much of Yurchenko before but I enjoyed her gymnastics a lot.

Gymnastics

• Has anyone competed cuervos recently?
• I wasn't aware of the BB trend to do a move an half turn on the beam during landing.
• Tucked Pak was cool to see given one of my fantasy moves is a double tucked Pak transition.
• I enjoyed the variety of spin positions on FX.
• This was a really interesting time for UB with the mix of releases still common today and old school close-bars skills.
• Overall I enjoyed a lot of this but I wasn't amazed. 80s gymnastics is cherished but I can't say I was gripped or bowled over by artistry and dance on FX. Perhaps that's because I'd seen the outstanding routines already and the quality didn't extend a long way down? Once again BB was my favourite event to watch (aside from jump amplitude if you weren't from a top team). The creativity and confidence was on another level.

Nostalgia/personal

• We also used to call ROs arabsprings in primary school but I've never heard it since. Wonder when it switched?

I don't think the Cuervo is in the COP anymore. It disappeared around 2006, IIRC.

 

[Puffin]

It was itv who showed it, not channel 4. I think itv showed quite a bit of gymnastics at that time, like the Kraft international

Yes ITV was the gymnastics channel for a lot of events in those days with their deadly commentary duo Monica Phelps (hates "chunky" gymnasts but happy to stand by her paedo husband) and John (Taylor???) - who loved everything Romanian.

They used to show a lot of the UK invitationals such as Champions All in the spring and Coca Cola/Kraft just before Christmas. I used to go to most of them - even the one they held in a tent.

ITV also used to show 30 minute highlight programmes during their "World of Sport" magazine show (before the horse racing) - often Soviet Competitions

 

[RAFIKI]

Thanks for the correction. Interesting history and it’s cool that they used to show the smaller competitions as well.

 

[RAFIKI]

I don't think the Cuervo is in the COP anymore. It disappeared around 2006, IIRC.

Well that explains their absence then! Another blow for variety.

 

[Concorde]

Well that explains their absence then! Another blow for variety.

In June of 2006, the WTC issued Newsletter #24 which stated that Cuervo vaults will receive a 0.00. While I am not aware of this happening at any FIG/international events, Huang Lu received a 0.00 for performing a piked Cuervo vault at a competition in China(either a Chinese regional or national event).

The WTC’s rationale for the rule was that the immediate 1/2 turn following the block limited a gymnast’s ability to progress to more difficult vaults (i.e. adding additional twists). In particular, the 1/2 turn, especially if done too early, may result in a lack of sufficient rotation needed to complete the vault.

Cuervo vaults returned to the table of elements beginning with the 2013-2016 COP and were listed in the same box as barani vaults.

 

[RedBirdie]

Cuervos were put in the same box as front halfs. Completely different technique, one is way harder then the other, but WTC decided they're the same . Ridiculous. So the Cuervo name has been removed from WAG as a result.

 

[RedBirdie]

Concorde beat me to it, and had a better explanation of the whole thing to boot.

 

[MaryClare]

Thanks for the correction. Interesting history and it’s cool that they used to show the smaller competitions as well.

Kind of like how the bbc showed the Glasgow GP in the 90s and early 00s, in the 80s if gymnastics was happening in the UK, itv usually showed it. They showed the British for a few years around that time too

 

[RAFIKI]

BBC are responsible for me starting to attend competitions. Their Glasgow GP coverage mentioned that the venue was Kelvin Hall (showed the exterior some years) so I managed to get a hold of the venue phone number through directory enquiries. I then proceeded to phone them every few weeks to see if they knew a date for the next gymnastics GP event and how ticketing would work. I’m sure the receptionist loved me! The joys of pre-internet times

 

[tempest]

The tiebreak breaking possibilities sounded wild, breaking ties based on higher score for each event in Olympic order seems pretty unfair. Was this ever actually the rule?

I was wondering about this myself

 

[MaryClare]

BBC are responsible for me starting to attend competitions. Their Glasgow GP coverage mentioned that the venue was Kelvin Hall (showed the exterior some years) so I managed to get a hold of the venue phone number through directory enquiries. I then proceeded to phone them every few weeks to see if they knew a date for the next gymnastics GP event and how ticketing would work. I’m sure the receptionist loved me! The joys of pre-internet times

It was so low budget in the early days you wouldn’t believe. I was a flag girl 98-01 and a runner 02-04. The first couple of years, our gym didn’t have any equipment for a week because it was all owned by the city council, who also ran the GP and were too cheap to pay Continental to come in and erect a competition set. That time when the P bars collapsed? Yeah it was probably because it was put up by the MAG junior group from City of Glasgow.

Still, it was an amazing achievement for a meet that was run on such a shoestring by a local council to attract the biggest stars in the sport. It was very well attended and supported by local people, and school children attended the qualification day for free. It’s success definitely lead to Glasgow hosting the World Cup final in 2000, and quite a number of gymnastics competitions since. It was an amazing experience as a child, getting to hang around with all these top gymnasts.

I remember one year, maybe 2002, rattling buckets around the Kelvin Hall to get people to donate money for Alisher Kurpanov’s cancer treatment. I met him years later, he was at university in Moscow and his mum was performing at one of Nemov’s gymnastics galas.