Kui Yuanyuan 96 Beam scored using todays rules.

[Denn]

Someone asked how it would score nowadays, and I took a bite. This felt like "doing evil".

• Layout mount E
• pause/adjustment –0.1
• BHS BHS layout full B + B + G + 0.3 Slight pike -0.1, bobble -0.1
• Stag Ring B
• There would be questions on whether she does (would do) split jumps or Sissones. Let's give her split jumps for C + B + B and 0.1 series bonus. Either way, –0.1 for the free leg swinging into the switch split being bent, –0.1 for the last split not being 180°, and –0.1 for it being off angle.
• No connection bonus available (which is stupid) for the long series. Just two separate series.
• Flip-flop + layout + layout: B + C + R + 0.2 Slight wobble on last layout stepout. -0.1
• Split jump –0.1 off angle + Korbut is a waste of a move -- fulfilled a mixed combo requirement back then. R + B
• full turn slight loss of balance –0.1
• Pause before dismount –0.1
• Roundoff + Double back B + D + 0.2 dismount bonus for D or higher
• Chest down -0.1, legs staggered -0.1, small adjustment -0.1
• Some would also penalize her choreo for something 0.1

Requirements 2.0
Dismount bonus 0.2
D-score: 1.5 + GEDCCBBB + 0.9 = 5.7
E-score: 8.6
Total Score: 14.3, maybe 14.3 if she threw in a clean front aerial.

Compared to the mid-to-high 14s and even a 15 occasionally these days.

That just doesn't seem right...

 

[Denn]

Added the video...
Any thoughts?

 

[Kittentoes]

It is evil. It was such a gorgeous routine.

 

[eanda]

I’m glad to see this routine would have a higher E score than most routines today. It’s also a routine that really demonstrates the need for .05 deductions. Taking .1 after a turn for a barely-seen bobble that doesn’t interrupt the flow of the routine is too much. There are a few other places I probably would have used the .05 option.

Deductions for not hitting 180 on choreo elements (the kick) are ridiculous. It’s a free element. An expectation of extension and amplitude can be in place without hitting 180 on an element not even in the COP. I feel like this is part of FIG’s WG’s effort to make artistry a checklist. And going by the checklist, I guess you could take .1 for choreo, but I wouldn’t want to just for the fact that her low beam work is more than just lying down with one leg wrapped around the beam and then standing up.

This score would have ranked fifth at worlds last year at 13.8. Put in the missing front/aerial requirement and she’s tied for silver.

 

[Concorde]

• kick in the choreo: not 180° –0.1

There is no requirement to show a full split in leg swings. Because Kui’s foot reached above head height, no amplitude deduction would be assessed.

• There would be questions on whether she does split jumps or Sissones.

Each of these is clearly landed on one foot and shows forward traveling motion. Therefore, they would be credited as sissones. A deduction could be taken for not showing the diagonal shape in the split.

• Some would also penalize her choreo for something 0.1

Kui would receive a deduction for missing ‘Side Choreography’.

Requirements 1.5 (missing forward salto or aerial)

The CR can be satisfied with either forward or side acrobatic elements, which Kui fulfills from the round off into the dismount.

 

[Concorde]

And going by the checklist, I guess you could take .1 for choreo, but I wouldn’t want to just for the fact that her low beam work is more than just lying down with one leg wrapped around the beam and then standing up.

Kui would not receive the deduction for missing ‘Close to Beam’ choreography. She satisfies it through the combination of one element(Korbut) + one choreography movement(the 1/2 turn on her chest and the alternating leg extensions on her knees).

 

[Denn]

About the low-to-beam stuff, that's what @eanda was already saying, @Concorde .

 

[IratePanda]

Could someone evaluate Yang Bo's beam from the 1990 World Cup AA? It scored slightly higher than her winning EF routine.



And perhaps Lysenko '92 as well?



No lack of low-to-beam work there!

Thank you!

 

[Denn]

I added a deduction for bent leg on the swing into the switch split — I had seen but forgotten to type it.

@Concorde

• Forward acro (vs. salto) — totally my error: Wow, not sure how I made that error. Last night, I somehow got it in my head that it had to be a salto. No idea where that came from. Thanks for catching that!
• Leg swing — clarification needed: I removed the deduction, but where is there clarification about the expectation in that rule? (Which I think is a stupid rule anyway. It's choreo. Let them do what they want.)
• Side Choreography — misunderstood point. There's no way she would show up without side choreography, so I let that go, but my point was that that some judges will still find some reason to penalize her 0.1 anyway — as we almost never see 0 artistry deductions for beam.
• Dance series — misunderstood point. The question is what she would do under current (asinine) rules for what constitutes a Sissone which have already changed at least twice since 1996. I'm saying that we should make them split jumps to get the series bonus.

About the Sissone rule: That rule has changed multiple times since 1996, and the current version is the rudest version yet. It's completely asinine that a gymnast is literally not allowed to jump to horizontal split (or even roughly horizontal) and then land on one foot at a time the way Kui Yuanyuan does. And as evil as I had to be to score that routine using current-day rules, I refused to go to the special place in hell for the rotton soul who made this rule. That judges are trying to make their lives easier at the expense of punishing beautiful, reasonable gymnastics like Kui Yuanyuan's series — it's just lazy and misguided. And busybody.

 

[Denn]

@IratePanda Someone else will have to do it — I already put myself through that kind of torture once this week. LOL

 

[Concorde]

• Leg swing — clarification needed: I removed the deduction, but where is there clarification about the expectation in that rule? (Which I think is a stupid rule anyway. It's choreo. Let them do what they want.)

This is covered in the WTC presentations on artistry.

Note the additional specifications when the needle or ring positions are shown. The audio in the presentation elaborates that:

1) Needle Kick, an example of what they are referring to is what RIvera does at 0:16 here:

2) For ring swings, gymnasts must satisfy the same criteria that they do in ring elements do avoid the deduction.

• Dance series — misunderstood point. The question is what she would do under current (asinine) rules for what constitutes a Sissone which have already changed at least twice since 1996. I'm saying that we should make them split jumps to get the series bonus.

I remembered this after the fact, but in the case of dance elements, they must all be different for series bonus to be awarded. Therefore, the change from Sissones to Split Jumps would not make a difference aside from being able to count a B vs. an A. From STS:

 

[Denn]

OMG... SOOO. FREAKING. BUSYBODY!!!!!!!​

It's insane that they are defining what qualifies as a deduction in various presentations and not in the Code of Freaking Points, where it should be. Or, in this case, should NOT be, because none of those things should be rules.

Thank you, @Concorde, for articulating the madness. I appreciate it.

 

[Doug1233]

Someone asked how it would score nowadays, and I took a bite. This felt like "doing evil".

• Layout mount E
• pause/adjustment –0.1
• BHS BHS layout full B + B + G + 0.3 Slight pike -0.1, bobble -0.1
• Stag Ring B
• There would be questions on whether she does (would do) split jumps or Sissones. Let's give her split jumps for C + B + B and 0.1 series bonus. Either way, –0.1 for the free leg swinging into the switch split being bent, –0.1 for the last split not being 180°, and –0.1 for it being off angle.
• No connection bonus available (which is stupid) for the long series. Just two separate series.
• Flip-flop + layout + layout: B + C + R + 0.2 Slight wobble on last layout stepout. -0.1
• Split jump –0.1 off angle + Korbut is a waste of a move -- fulfilled a mixed combo requirement back then. R + B
• full turn slight loss of balance –0.1
• Pause before dismount –0.1
• Roundoff + Double back B + D + 0.2 dismount bonus for D or higher
• Chest down -0.1, legs staggered -0.1, small adjustment -0.1
• Some would also penalize her choreo for something 0.1

Requirements 2.0
Dismount bonus 0.2
D-score: 1.5 + GEDCCBBB + 0.9 = 5.7
E-score: 8.6
Total Score: 14.3, maybe 14.3 if she threw in a clean front aerial.

Compared to the mid-to-high 14s and even a 15 occasionally these days.

That just doesn't seem right...

I have an 8.7 E. No artistry deductions. But 2 adjustments and one pause.

 

[KristyJ]

The fact that you cannot do a choreographic freaking leg swing movement below the max is.... just dumb. Silly. Quite stupid. I can think of so many ways this limits artistry.

 

[Doug1233]

Kui would receive a deduction for missing ‘Side Choreography’.

What are the busybody requirements for this? Presumably you have to be standing on two feet to check the box (and her chest roll laterally across the beam wouldn't count).

 

[Denn]

I think that an Italian judge told me once that they always check that there's enough sideways choreo by saying "Il professor Bruno Grandi e Donatella non Versace" And if the gymnast is still moving sideways, no deduction.

 

[Denn]

• There must be body movements displayed in side position.
• Moving with transition from A through B to C (one step and close is not enough).
• The travelling should include minimum arms movement with choreography
value during the transition (pose after the travelling passage is not enough).
• During or at the end of the transition additional body movement should be included
(upper body, head, arms, legs involvement).

Here's the Help Desk video.

 

[RichardL]

So embarrassing that 0:16 is what the COP wants... just a little hip swivel that any five year old can do and which looks absolutely ridiculous.

 

[eanda]

• There must be body movements displayed in side position.
• Moving with transition from A through B to C (one step and close is not enough).
• The travelling should include minimum arms movement with choreography
value during the transition (pose after the travelling passage is not enough).
• During or at the end of the transition additional body movement should be included
(upper body, head, arms, legs involvement).

All of it is so ridiculous. I can just imagine the WTC spending hours coming to an agreement on this list.

I used to be mad that USAG has restrictions elibility for brevet judges, but I don't think I would really enjoy it now. I feel like it would be much more stressful to evaluate the stupid details they require for things like leg swings and side passages than the real elements of the routine.

 

[Denn]

@eanda I resonate strongly with that. I used to judge men's gymnastics in the United States, and I felt dirty after every competition — and quit because of it.

And their rules aren't even as bad as the FIG rules for women.