Kovacs with an extra flip?

Wait!! Am I seeing this right? I realize he didn’t really try to catch the bar. But what???


Screenshot 2023-06-25 at 10.44.03 AM


Yeah that is a triple…which is insane!


This makes me wonder, why have there never been any single-salto releases (really half-salto) over the bar in the code? Like instead of just going backwards on a tkatchev, why not swing up and half-flip over the bar?

Or for example in a Gaylord/Mo Salto, it’s really just 1 turn in the air (you release upside down and then catch upside down; at most it’s 1.25 turns if you catch the bar completely horizontal, nobody tries to actually catch after a full 1.5 turns - although that would deserve some kind of bonus), so if you did a half-salto then you would be catching the bar upright.

Very cool and scary! This and a double pak (would have to be tucked) are skills I’ve always fantasised about.

Do you mean like the first skill in this vid?

No, that skill is wayyyy harder, that’s a Tkatchev with a full front salto added.

I’m talking about if you swing up like you were going towards handstand position, or like the start of going into a Gienger, but then you release from the bar and go over it, going from that upside-down position into an upright position and catching on the other side of the bar. Here, I made a skill drawing:

New flight skill

Well a hop 1/1 to handstand is a D so I would guess this would be a B? If it showed impressive flight and style like your drawing, I would love to see this element

The men’s code has an element like that called “flying giant”. A lot of kids do it. I used to teach that element.

This one is nominal.

Others have done it with more flair, but I can’t find a video right now.

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Then you will LOVE this from a couple years ago. Never competed but caught…


The skill rating would depend on the position, a tucked version would be the easiest but I’d still put that at a C, it’s still a flight skill that requires enough amplitude to go over the bar and then catch above the bar upright with straight arms (if you don’t want a deduction). If you were to cheat the skill by swinging all the way up to handstand and then releasing, yeah that’s just a B (although that’s still harder than a regular giant swing…a basic skill which not be B-rated, just A).

The reverse grip version of the skill would be inherently more difficult, you have to catch the bar with your arms behind you (and actual reverse grip catch, unlike the many Tkatchev 1/2’s we see), so a tucked version of that would deserve at least a D. That skill would also need to be given the empty swing exemption. Interestingly, adding a 1/2 twist to that version of the skill would arguably make it easier, since you now get to catch normally again.

Flying giant is much simpler, that one is more of a hop really. This one is closer to what I am envisioning:

This one still doesn’t flip quite far enough around though, the catch should be more upright, and the legs here aren’t what we’d want to see for elite form. You wouldn’t want the feet pointing in the opposite direction of the movement like this to begin with, you’d want your feet pointing more toward the bar when you release.

Didn’t Levya do this skill?

Man that crowd was pumped. Was this in Madison Square Garden?

Which skill in his routine do you mean? But no, none of the skills being discussed in the thread are in that routine.

sorry, I thought I timestamped it… it’s at 1:02. it’s kinda like the skill at reply 8 and 10

Hmm, at 1:02 he is doing an Endo. The skill right before that is a stoop-in with a hop.

If you mean at :38, then yeah that’s pretty much the “double layout” version of the skill I am talking about. But if you were to remove a full flip from that skill Leyva is doing (3/4 of a flip actually), then the “half-flip” (“single layout”) version should release from the bar slightly earlier and then catch in an upright position, instead of catching horizontally, for the layout position in the air to be clear.

I’m having a hard time envisioning a gymnast releasing before handstand without traveling forward/away from the bar

In that video I posted you can see the guy is releasing before vertical. His legs are wrong though (would be a big deduction trying to execute it like that). You need to be pointing your legs and feet in a “scooping” kind of motion to keep moving in a circular motion backwards and be upright for the catch.

If you watch the Mo Salto it can be seen there too - they are releasing before vertical. It’s clearly possible to do the Mo Salto with 1/2 less of a flip in the air - it just hasn’t been done yet. Also interesting in thinking about that skill is how different the catch could be in L-grip on both arms vs regular reverse grip. The WAG code hasn’t been differentiating between grips at the end of skills, but in this instance it really should, catching a release completely in L-grip (not just sideways on the bar and turning into L-grip) deserves a higher rating and is very unique; you can’t realistically catch in L on the releases with more rotation.

Also, the Mo Salto needs be H-rated. It’s obviously more difficult than something like the Black or Derwael II, and not being able to connect out of it reduces how much it can actually be worth.

Jeltkov did the flying giant with a lot of height. It looks like a fun move.

Yes. IMO the only place the American Cup should have taken place. Always the best crowds and environment.
Went to 2006 American Cup in Philly and 2010 and 2013 in Worcester MA, and while all three were tons of fun, it was nothing like an American Cup in MSG.

2006 was fun because there were prelims again that year, so it was interesting to watch all the gymnasts and not just the ones that made finals.