Kim Gwang-Suk vs Lu Li?

Under the rules of the time, you can see why Lu Li won.

But with more modern eyes, whose routine was better?

KGS. One of those routines I can watch over and over again.

I never understood why her skill is called a counter Kim? Why isn’t it just a Kim?

I enjoy KGS’s routine more. Visually it had more impact.

KGS’s routine will always be one of my favorite bars routines. Lu Li’s was great but KGS’s is just still so cool.


I’ve never been a huge fan of Lu li… I do like her 93 routine… I wish she had continued


I enjoy lu li’s routine, tbh. Yes kgs is way harder but this is not the most egregious 10.0 system injustice to me.


I had never seen that @tempest !
She changed the bail to a Pak.

Thank you for posting!

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The giant 1.5 was also named after her.

Funny little thing: 1994 Worlds happened when I was in college, and I rarely saw gymnastics on TV those years. So I never saw the World bars final … which, according to reports I read, was won by Luo Li with a massive score.

So I thought it was a little typo or a corrected spelling, and the same gymnast as Lu Li! And since we never really saw her again, I thought that sort of added fuel to the fire.

I was surprised, years later, when I saw a video on the internet!

Yeah, but that doesn’t explain counter Kim. Kim I and II yes, that would make sense


the “counter” kim swings into a flip with “counter”-rotation.

numbers are less natural and memorable when distinguishing things that aren’t really ordered.

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Yes. So describing it as a counter Tkatchev is accurate. But what Kim is it countering? It isn’t

What an injustice to the English language, Alexander Tkatchev, and all Kims everywhere!

Well she was countering biology and basic math with her age


I’m surprised Nellie hasn’t renamed it the “Kim” so she can take credit…

For a moment there i thought, was the kim taken. I mean it’s a pretty common Korean surname no?

Yeah, something like 40% of the population.

We have a slang term here which translates roughly as Kim Town, which is how people especially young people refer to the part of their city that is more commonly known as Little Korea or Little Pyongyang

Perhaps a slight edge to KGS. She basically has the difficulty edge of one very difficult/original release move worth compared to Lu Li, but two glaring form errors in her jaeger and DLO landing, so even with “modern eyes” (the E panel/D panel distinction) I think these scores could be pretty close.

I too would give the edge to KGS. She had a higher D-score for sure. I’m not taking deductions for the inbar kips to HB as they were current for the time. Her straight body cast HS are precise. They both have issues for angle on the non-flight 360° (I give the edge here to KGS). KGS also has a marginally higher ‘bail’. LL had angle issues on the LB Stalder (a B only for me) and the clear-hip is borderline. The clear-hip shoot to HB is anemic.

Were there any other jaegars as bad as KGS at the time? Struggling to recall one. It was badly executed in 91 when she got the 10 as well, but I think that was probably because she was essentially being started from above 10 as very difficult routines often did then, rather than because that’s the way people were doing the element at the time.