With individual judges scores and artistry scores for beam and floor. Have we seen this before? Someone over on Reddit found it linked from the 2022 site.
Edited again: It’s working again
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I’m happy as a pig in mud! I would have spent my day pouring over it except I was at a conference all day (they said they didn’t care that the full results book was out, I still had to give me presentation. Priorities, people!). I’ll definitely be digging into the details all next week.
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it stopped working. perhaps it was released by accident… but someone on Reddit saved some snapshots.
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I was just able to download it. Woo hoo!
Man, judge 4 on floor was not feeling Jordan Chiles. Oof.
very interesting. Wild that only judge 1 saw a major difference in artistry between Chiles and Carey… Judge 2 thought Carey had better artistry than Visser for chrissake
These artistry breakdowns are making me look for wine
I cannot even make sense of some of these disparities… like is this sport even real, as conceived of as a single sport by the majority of people who participate in it?
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my takeaway is that the biggest artistry deductions are taken in regards to posture and body type, with little regard for actual style/variation in tempo/creative choreography… sad
Can we stop with the idea that posture and body type are linked. Bad posture looks horrible on everyone and good posture is equally achievable by all body types
I’m not seeing it with Chiles. I think her posture is far better with Carey. Sure her chest could be lifted more, but I’m not seeing how any one judge deducts -0.6 for artistry for Chiles…
In the Nationals Day 1 discussion thread, Concorde said the WTC is looking for “Stomach pulled in, rib cage in front of stomach, and rib cage lifted.” I take issue with “rib cage in front of stomach.” I understand they’re looking for a gentle pelvic tuck, but “rib cage in front of stomach” is awful instruction-- a dancer’s ribcage should be closed. So sure, maybe I’m wrong to have said “body type,” but for all the dance training Nellie Kim had, you’d think the WTC would have a smarter understanding of natural alignment
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Gymnastics has different posture requirements to dancers. Dance posture would look wayyy out of place in artistic gymnastics. The FIG has published what they are looking for and imo it’s achievable for every elite gymnast.
Do you think rib cage in front of stomach is ideal for gymnastics? You coach, so I appreciate your thought on this…in my mind it’s not good instruction
Routines with the fewest artistry deductions I can find
Floor:
Six judges gave this zero artistry deductions, the seventh took 0.2
And beam:
Three judges had zero artistry deductions, two took 0.1 and two took 0.2
Thorsdottier is used several times in positive artistry examples, not surprised she got 0 deductions from many judges. Being used as an example kind of tells the judges, hey I don’t deduct here because she is the example FIG sent out. It’s almost subconscious bias.
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I don’t coach, here you need a degree to be a gymnastics trainer. I’m a dance technician (not a choreographer, that requires professional ballet training)
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It’s completely wrong to use current athletes for either positive or negative examples when they could have literally just stuck to Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson
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1,000% agree.
Negative OR positive example puts a bias in judges’ minds. Chiles as a negative example already means the judges are going to deduct automatically. Thorsdottier as a positive example means judges are less likely to deduct. It is subconscious bias at its finest.
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My understanding from my few years of classical ballet training is that rib cage in front of stomach is awful instruction. So I’m not sure what they’re looking for…
As I said, ballet and artistic gymnastics have very different expectations when it comes to posture. They aren’t the same. Occasionally you do see a gymnast who either naturally or deliberately moves like a ballet dancer and it looks weird. I work in both AG and RG and my corrections on the same exercises can be completely different because the respective disciplines are looking for different things.
Gymnasts are not supposed to be ballerinas. If you watch videos from the 60s, when the sport was at its most balletic, their movement is deliberately different to that of a ballet dancer.
I hear that. I’m just struggling to envision a sport or world in which it is advisable to tell anyone, athlete or not, to stick their ribs out past their stomach…